Should I learn Metric now? Beginning woodworker help.

[Jon Steffen]

I have the Woodpeckers Story Stick, had it for 3 years, think I've used it once and then it wasn't much of an advantage.

It would be the last thing I would buy again, correct that, I wouldn't buy it again.

I have lots of Woodpecker tools, most I like.

Thanks, good to know.

[johnny means]

Life is a whole lot easier if you can move easily between the two. I don't have much use for decimal inches because no one in my professional ecosystem uses them. Story sticks are great if you work in a cave alone and never do anything longer than your wingspan, but I'm pretty sure AutoCad doesn't do storystick yet.

[Brian Holcombe]

For those who use decimal inches, where do you find a scale in decimal inches? The only such thing I've ever seen is my dad had an old pipe layer's tape that was in decimal feet.

I just have the fractions memorized as decimal inches.

[Curt Harms]

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This is the main reason why i'm asking. Going to be buying some tools in the coming months, Don't want to buy more Imperial if I am going to make the switch. I probably only have a few hundred dollars wrapped up in stuff that I would want to replace.


The Inch being 25.4mm is rather funny. Maybe it won't be too hard to make the change afterall.
thanks for the info about precision/accuracy

I think I might invest in a Metric tape measure and next project I build, just use that and see how things go. I don't have a ton of router bits, drill bits that I'd need to replace.

Are dado widths measured in both imperial and metric? Or do you actually make a 1/2" wide dado and then the slightly thinner 1/2" plywood (not actually 1/2" thick) just fit a little loose?

1 mm is fairly close to halfway between 1/16" and 1/32". My fix for plywood and dados was to build a simple jig, 2 pieces of 3/4" ply held together by crosspieces with slots in one end. I clamp one of the 'jaws' to the workpiece with the inside edge on the desired edge of the dado. Put the shelf or a piece against one 'jaw' then move the other 'jaw' against the shelf and tighten a knob to hold the second 'jaw' in position. I now have a space the exact width of the desired dado. I use a 1/2" X 1/2" top bearing router bit, also referred to as a pattern bit to cut the dado. There's no reliance on available router bit sizes to match the plywood thickness. The limitation is the size of available pattern bit sizes. There's also a way to use router bushings and straight bits using a similar jig to accomplish the same thing, the advantage there is the ability to do dados narrower than available pattern bits. There may be pattern bits smaller than 1/2" but I don't find them readily. I find using a router to cut dados slower than a dado head in a table saw but the resulting dado is really smooth and I don't have to cut - shim - cut as I do with a dado head. Different ways to skin the proverbial cat.

[Jim Becker]

For story sticks I use...a stick. Literally. I mark it with pencils, both normal black and sometimes colors to differentiate certain things.

Jon, on your question about router bits, those are a tougher row to hoe, but honestly, it's not much of a big deal. For dados/grooves/rebates that need to mach material thickness, it's best to do it with a smaller cutter and two passes anyway so you can precisely match the material thickness. Plywood, for example, is variable in thickness, although buying quality from a real sheet goods supplier usually results in a little more consistency. I measure with a caliper. For my CNC, I do have a few very small diameter cutters that are metric, but most tooling is Imperial just because that's what's available. I don't really care about that because the software does the conversion anyway.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Mike, I had been using Imperial all my life before switching to metric and didn't find it difficult.

As you indicated you do need new measuring tools and I never convert.

I design and build in metric, if I ever use a drawing in Imperial I use that measurement system for fabrication....Regards, Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Very true Mark, the only issue is mailing that story stick, drawings are easier

regards, Rod.

[Joe Jensen]

Metric is easy as others have said. The one thing I don't like is that all the tapes I use have 1/32nd of an inch market. I often read and split that 1/32" into half. Metric tapes are marked down to 1/10ths of a MM which is a little more than 1/32". Not a huge diff.

[Jon Steffen]

1 mm is fairly close to halfway between 1/16" and 1/32". My fix for plywood and dados was to build a simple jig, 2 pieces of 3/4" ply held together by crosspieces with slots in one end. I clamp one of the 'jaws' to the workpiece with the inside edge on the desired edge of the dado. Put the shelf or a piece against one 'jaw' then move the other 'jaw' against the shelf and tighten a knob to hold the second 'jaw' in position. I now have a space the exact width of the desired dado. I use a 1/2" X 1/2" top bearing router bit, also referred to as a pattern bit to cut the dado. There's no reliance on available router bit sizes to match the plywood thickness. The limitation is the size of available pattern bit sizes. There's also a way to use router bushings and straight bits using a similar jig to accomplish the same thing, the advantage there is the ability to do dados narrower than available pattern bits. There may be pattern bits smaller than 1/2" but I don't find them readily. I find using a router to cut dados slower than a dado head in a table saw but the resulting dado is really smooth and I don't have to cut - shim - cut as I do with a dado head. Different ways to skin the proverbial cat.

Nice I think i get the visual. i've seen videos of dado router jigs before. Seems easy enough once I've used a router a few times.
As for the dado stack, do you need to cut-shim-cut, or can you put the whole stack together and do pass-raise blade-pass.......? More ways to skin the cat I guess. might need to precicely position depth of cut (height of blade) on the final pass?

[Jon Steffen]

For story sticks I use...a stick. Literally. I mark it with pencils, both normal black and sometimes colors to differentiate certain things.

Jon, on your question about router bits, those are a tougher row to hoe, but honestly, it's not much of a big deal. For dados/grooves/rebates that need to mach material thickness, it's best to do it with a smaller cutter and two passes anyway so you can precisely match the material thickness. Plywood, for example, is variable in thickness, although buying quality from a real sheet goods supplier usually results in a little more consistency. I measure with a caliper. For my CNC, I do have a few very small diameter cutters that are metric, but most tooling is Imperial just because that's what's available. I don't really care about that because the software does the conversion anyway.

What kind of stick? 1/2 thick strip of plywood, pine, oak? 1/4"? stick from a white pine that fell in the backyard? =)

The readily available comment hits home. I think most of the bits i've seen are imperial. I was also thinking I need to learn to be bilingual in metric and imperial. Imperial works really well for 2x material to reduce waste on material.

I think i'll end up building some projects in imperial and some in metric, but never both and never convert like others have suggested.

[Jim Dwight]

Yes, you can find metric dimension router bits although they are not as common as imperial bits, at least from the suppliers I use. The "chuck" refers to the collet of the router, the part that grips the bit. 1/4 and 1/2 are the most common in the U. S. but I noticed I can get 8mm collets for my PC routers if I want. I don't plan to do that because I already have 5 collets in imperial for my 3 PC routers and quite a few bits. But if there was a bit I really wanted to use that only came in 8mm I would get that collet.

I don't think one sizing system is better or worse for router bits or collets. But it is easier to get the sizes most common where you live.

[Steve Mathews]

As a hobbyist woodworker and machinist I see no advantage to do anything in Metric as opposed to Imperial measurements. Accuracy/precision is certainly not enhanced and working with either system is not more difficult or easier than the other. They're simply systems of measurement. Most of my tools are in Imperial so that's what I use most often. When using the few tools I have in Metric I use that system of measurement or make the appropriate conversion. The same goes with trying to follow a design that's in either system of measurement. It's not that difficult. So, to the OPs question I say use both and by no means discard or not use good tools just because they're setup for feet and inches.

[Mark Hennebury]

I will make a video.


But you can probably figure it out quite easily once you give it a try, you will see more and more ways to use it.
The thing is, woodworking is simple if you get a system down.
Then all you need is the patience and discipline to follow your system.
The biggest concern is eliminating errors.
So develop a system to eliminate as many ways that would introduce errors is the place to start.
When you begin a piece of furniture all you need is an overall length , height and width. and for most things it doesn't matter which way you get that. feet and inches, decimals or fractions millimetres or hands. or you can just sketch it out full-size and play with the proportions until it looks right. You can design it on Autocad or Solidworks or whatever and have every part to four decimal places if you want, but it won't help you achieve that accuracy unless you know how to apply that to your work. The system!

Dress your stock, straight , square and parallel, it doesn't matter what you measure it with a tape measure or digital calipers, it doesn't matter what size it is, it maybe be ten thou over or under the target, or a sixteenth it makes no difference as you will transfer for the stock itself.
Always dress extra stock. You will need pieces for story sticks and test pieces.
Always make you stock longer than you need; so that you can cut off to finish length and have cut-offs to use for transferring sizes to your story stick.
Make several story sticks. You use them for dividing spaces.
Make your story sticks square, and use all sides, when needed.

I make story sticks out of the same size stock as i make my furniture. I dress up extra stock to the same dimensions as my furniture pieces, it doesn't have to be the same wood. But something with a clear fine grain so that you can see fine knife lines.

[Derek Cohen]

I grew up with both Imperial and Metric, so I guess that makes me bilingual

Most hand tools are in Imperial since the good stuff is either vintage British or vintage US. Then, tool slaving takes this a step further, with mortice chisels and plough plane blades being matched up. However, this is still not “measuring”, per se.

A turning point was the purchase of a Hammer A3-31 jointer-thicknesser/planer. This is Metric. Now machining boards is easier if done in Metric. This also affects grooves, since it is easier to thickness 6mm rather than 6.35mm (1/4”). And so there is a slow move to metric plough plane blades.

Metric will inevitably take over for measurements. This is not the same thing as measuring for parts. Measuring for parts does not need a number; instead it is required to be a good proportion, aesthetic, sympathetic. You do not get these from Metric or Imperial numbers. You don’t even measure them. Instead you determine them by play. And you transfer them practically, with a story stick.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

What kind of stick? 1/2 thick strip of plywood, pine, oak? 1/4"? stick from a white pine that fell in the backyard?

I use whatever is in the shorts bin for a short stick and the longs rack for something long. Scrap material, in other words. It might be solid stock and if it's not clean, a pass through the planer solves that. It might be a piece of plywood cutoff or MDF. I use a lot of .25" MDF for templates, story sticks or boards, etc. Whatever is available.