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Thread: Routing romex through an inaccessible crawl space: need advice

  1. #1
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    Routing romex through an inaccessible crawl space: need advice

    background:
    My daughters 1860 house has an addition built around 1970. The original house has a stacked stone foundation. The addition has a crawl space maybe 18” high. Entry to the crawl space would be through vents about 6”x12”. I judge that to be no entry at all.

    problem:
    All outlets for the kitchen are on one 15a circuit which means that my daughter trips the breaker if she uses more than one thing at once.

    my solution:
    two of the outlets are in an island. The island is fairly close to the cellar. The cabinet under the island would let me make a fairly big access hole to the crawl space. Using string, a magnet and a long pole, I could route romex from the island to the cellar. I think the distance in the crawl space is about 8’.

    but:
    Code says that I must attach the romex to the joists. As I understand it, I can attach it to the bottom edge of the joists. But I can’t get down there to do it. Anyway, I don’t like the idea of dangling romex any better than an inspector would.

    so:
    my idea is sort of a running board on steroids. I’m thinking two 1x4’s glued perpendicular to make a T shape for stiffness. I pre-attach pvc conduit.
    — I run a pull cord first.
    —using the pull cord I pass the running board under the joists. I attach the running board to the bottom of the joist nearest the island. Reach in from the cellar and attach the other end.
    — using the pull cord, I pull Romex through the conduit.

    I know I’m really not supposed to run romex through conduit. It might be better to pull individual wires.
    Im thinking lag screws with washers at each end to spread the force.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    My thinking is, that you need to cut an access hatch. At some point (now) you are going to need to access it. No sense running electric wire you can’t properly secure.
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  3. #3
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    Perhaps using Teck cable or bx cable (armored) would work in your situation. Not sure if your code would require those to be attached to the joists. I use Teck cable in my shop quite a bit as it's very resistant to damage and water.

  4. #4
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    The CEC has a provision for fishing cable in an inaccessible space - you don't need to support it. Does the NEC have something similar?

  5. #5
    I have a raised floor house with no access from the exterior. But I do have an access hatch inside one of my closets. But 18 inches of clearance is pretty tight. I don't know if I'd like to be crawling in that kind of space.

    I don't know exactly what the clearance is under my house but I know it's more than 18 inches. Next time I have to go down there I'll measure it. It's at least 2 feet and probably more.

    Mike
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark Hussey View Post
    My thinking is, that you need to cut an access hatch. At some point (now) you are going to need to access it. No sense running electric wire you can’t properly secure.
    I think an access hatch is a non-starter. She would just live with it until a planed major remodel in ten years or so.

  7. #7
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    cross bow or radio controlled car to get the string from the access hatch to the drop site. They make special cross bows for fishermen that already have the line reel attached. I believe Klien? makes an electricians cross bow.
    Bill D.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Pratt View Post
    The CEC has a provision for fishing cable in an inaccessible space - you don't need to support it. Does the NEC have something similar?
    Yes, the NEC has a similar exception. Nevertheless, I thinking running MC or better yet liquid tight flexible conduit would be the better way to go.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    cross bow or radio controlled car to get the string from the access hatch to the drop site. They make special cross bows for fishermen that already have the line reel attached. I believe Klien? makes an electricians cross bow.
    Bill D.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F Franklin View Post
    Yes, the NEC has a similar exception. Nevertheless, I thinking running MC or better yet liquid tight flexible conduit would be the better way to go.
    What about UF? It's rated for wet use and is almost as easy to use as NM.
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    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F Franklin View Post
    Yes, the NEC has a similar exception. Nevertheless, I thinking running MC or better yet liquid tight flexible conduit would be the better way to go.
    im really warming up to flexible conduit. I knew I would get great suggestions here. As long as I securely anchor both ends in the cabinet and in the cellar, I should be good.

    i think this enterprise just got a whole lot easier. I’m thinking that I will use oversized conduit in case I want to run another circuit.
    Last edited by Roger Feeley; 07-09-2020 at 4:01 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    What about UF? It's rated for wet use and is almost as easy to use as NM.
    there might be critters down there. We used to have a Lennox AC and the mice would chew the insulation. Is that still a problem? If so, a little more armor plating might be in order.

  13. #13
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    There's always a way to do it. I'd run conduit. Glue it up with two long sweep elbows. Take a stone out of the foundation for access, or even cut one. Sometimes you have to go around your elbow, and a couple of more, to get back to your thumb. I've installed some pretty long runs of wire in old houses.

  14. #14
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    Got any energy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Feeley View Post
    .... I think the distance in the crawl space is about 8’.
    It's work but I'll tell you what many people did in Oak Ridge TN. A new city of houses went up in a very short time for the Manhattan Project. Most of these houses were built on crawl spaces and some were very tight. (I had an "A" house in 1972 but fortunately there was enough space under for access.) After the war these houses went to private ownership and MANY people got out the picks and shovels and expanded the crawl spaces for storage and even living space. I've been in several that were dug by hand to give 7-8' ceilings, concrete floors, nice walls, heat and air, plumbing and bathrooms. Some people dug for years in their spare time. It was common to leave a wide dirt berm all around the outside of the new basement so the existing foundation would not be disturbed, covering the berm with concrete block or reinforced concrete walls, and building storage cabinets above. People can certainly be resourceful!

    The point is compared to these excavations, it might not take much work at all to dig a channel under the floor deep and wide enough to crawl through to run wiring and maintain it as needed.

    JKJ

  15. #15
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    Can you go overhead and drop new wires down from the second floor or attic?

    Myself, I'd knock a big enough hole in the foundation to get access and then do whatever needs doing. But then I'm glutton for punishment.

    Another option is to run a raceway behind the baseboard or build a small soffit at the ceiling level to hold the wires, that will keep you out of the crawlspace.

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