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Thread: 15" Wide Belt Sander won't turn off

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    36

    15" Wide Belt Sander won't turn off

    Hi All. Trying to troubleshoot my 15" Extrema wide belt sander's "off" issue. Not a ton of stuff online for this exact machine but the Grizzly G0819 appears to be effectively the same machine. Barring some differing control layout the internals and electrical side of things look identical. Likely cam e from the same factory.

    Little back story, I acquired this machine from an old employer so I have a fair bit of time on it but was told that while it still ran fine it wouldn't turn off, you had to unplug it or cut the breaker. I finally got around to getting it into my shop and all that held true. Conveyor and head both run fine, pneumatics are all working, but none of the (5 total) off switches do anything. Plug it in, everything starts running. There are 3 emergency cut-offs, as well as the individual stops for the feed and conveyor, none do a thing.

    I gave everything a pretty thorough once over, blew out the minimal dust in the electrical boxes but still nothing. I'm assuming something is foul in one of the contactors, something fused itself open? Just a guess though.

    Anyone ever experience something similar or have any thoughts? I've added some pics for reference. Please let me know if it would help to see anything else.


    IMG_5127 by Josh Falcon, on Flickr

    IMG_5117 by Josh Falcon, on Flickr

    IMG_5118 by Josh Falcon, on Flickr
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Josh Falcon; 07-06-2020 at 2:00 PM.

  2. #2
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    Nov 2009
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    Peoria, IL
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    Check the output of that low voltage power supply.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Thanks Richard. The current transformer? What values would I be looking for?

  4. #4
    Richard surely knows more than I do about WB's but the "common" answer would be a contactor frozen open. There is no gasketing know to mankind that will prevent WB dust from getting into everything. Hope you figure it out.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central MA
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    1,349
    Either someone monkeyed with the wiring and fubared it or contractors M1 and M2 are both welded closed. Personally, I’d suspect the former, you need to start by going through the wiring point by point and confirming it is correct.

    ETA; in the horizontal cable way above the three contractors there appears to be a burnt wire buried in the left hand side. Take a look there and report back...
    Last edited by John Lanciani; 07-06-2020 at 7:02 PM.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2016
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    Modesto, CA, USA
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    When the breaker is shut off then turned on again it does not run correct? If so the contactors are not welded closed. one or more is jammed with sawdust or something or the return spring is broken.
    I would start by pulling fuse 2 and see what happens. replace fuse and then try disconnecting the start switch. If a start switch is welded closed it may bypass any stop switches.
    Bil lD.

    This is single phase?
    I assume the big contactor is the sanding belt motor and the smaller one is for the feed belt. What is the third contactor, without overloads, for?
    Last edited by Bill Dufour; 07-06-2020 at 7:24 PM.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Hi John, I double checked the panel after seeing your comment. It DOES look like a fried wire in the pic but when I checked again its just a combination of the grey plastic of the cable way and a screw holding that to the enclosure that looks like a burnt/bare wire. I was hoping you caught something I missed but alas. Good eyes though. As far as someone messing with the wiring I'm almost certain the previous owner never even opened the thing up. I'm the second owner and I never once saw the guy mess with any of the electrical on the machines. I'll give the diagram another once over and double check to see if anything is out of place though.

    Hi Bill, when the breaker is flipped on everything runs smoothly and yes, single phase. I'll try pulling the fuse tomorrow and see what happens. As far as the 3rd contactor on the right, I'm not 100% sure. This is where the Grizzly manual I've been trying to work from and this machine differ. Below is the Grizzly diagram and a pic of their wiring. I'm afraid my electrical diagram knowledge is rudimentary at best. I'm trying to sort through it though. I've been unable to find much of anything online for this specific machine.

    Grizzly Wiring by Josh Falcon, on Flickr

    Grizzly 2 by Josh Falcon, on Flickr

    I did notice that none of the lights on the control panel come on when running though which I think would be fed by the transformer Richard mentioned, maybe? The amp meter works. I had to order a new multi meter so I'll check the output on that tomorrow and report back.

    Thanks for all the help so far.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio
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    with the cord unplugged to the sander, push in m1 contactor and m2 contactor(should push in fairly easy with spring return)
    pulling F2 out eliminates control power. If it runs with f2 pulled then wired wrong or contactor stuck.
    I think m3 energizes an disk brake mounted on lower shaft or motor shaft. need to go down in basement and look at mine again
    good luck
    Ron

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Cambridge Vermont
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    When the machine is unplugged are the small square blocks in the center of the contactors (lower right side of the box) out? When they are turned on an electromagnet pulls them in. They should be spring loaded so if they are out and you push on them they should go in with minimal resistance. Do it unplugged. If they are out and move in freely plug it in and see if they pulled in. The only one that should is the one connected to the emergency off switch. Pushing it in should turn off the contactor it controls. The next thing I would try is to push in both of the red buttons to stop the belt and conveyor. They may be the type of button that doesn't stay in when pushed, if so hold them in. If the belt and the conveyor stay running then it's a real good sign that someone messed with the wiring. Looking at the picture wire #9 looks like someone removed it at one point in time as the screw and plastic near it looks a little beat up. Without being there with a multi-meter it's hard to troubleshoot.

  10. #10
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    Nov 2007
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    Richmond, VA
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    All good things to look at. Will check each of these out this evening and report back.

    Thanks again for all the suggestions!

  11. #11
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Hey all, went out and ran through a few things. Here's what I found

    1) The machine DOES run with fuse 2 removed

    2) All the contactors push in easily and return to the out position smoothly. All are in the out position with no power and remain out under power

    3) Pushing in and holding the OFF switches has no effect while the machine is running

    4) I think my photo angle was bad in relation to Alex's note about wire #9. Everything looks good there, no sign it was removed.

    5) Below is a pic of the reading I get from the transformer

    transformer output by Josh Falcon, on Flickr

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio
    Posts
    355
    took another look at the original picture
    SOMEONE HAS MOVED THE LOAD WIRES UP TO SAME TERMINALS ON TOP OF CONTACTORS AS POWER WIRES
    To verify this please one picture further back so we can see motor wires coming in cabinet and then 2 pictures one each of each contactor
    terminal screws are missing out of the belt contactor on the bottom where the wires should connect
    no wires on the bottom of contactor for sanding belt either
    post these pictures please
    thank you
    Ron

  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Thanks Ron, I think I see what you're looking at. I'll head out and grab a few more pics this afternoon.

    Thanks again
    Josh

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Modesto, CA, USA
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    With fuse #2 pulled it is not the control wiring. You say the armatures do not suck in under power on any contactor? This means either the contacts are welded shut or the power wires are connected wrong. If the control wires were permanently connected to the coils they would suck in the armatures.
    I would guess the coil voltage requirement is too high, connected wrong at the transformer, so they bypassed the coils. This means the overloads are not in the circuit as it is now.
    I would check each coil for continunity and jump each one in turn with the correct votage to see if things move.
    Bil lD

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
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    Hi Ron, I think I see what you're looking at. I'll snap a few pics this afternoon and let you know.

    Thanks again

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