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Thread: Entry Level Sliding Table Saw....HELP?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    65,638
    If the table is only 8.5’ long, Why would it need 20’ front to back?


    My 8'6" slider wagon on the S315WS requires 19' end to end for the wagon to have complete travel from pulled all the way back to pushed all the way forward. That's why I mentioned that if I had to downsize in the future, I'd sacrifice wagon length but not give up the crosscut precision of a slider by going with something like an SC2 or SC3 sized machine. I have a Festool tracksaw if I really need to rip full sheets in that scenario anyway.

    ----
    Let's please remember the OP asked about "entry level". That certainly means different things to different people, but probably more of them think about the smaller SCM/Minimax and Hammer machines in that context rather than big, old iron, especially when space constraints come into play.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    NE Connecticut
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    695
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Steffen View Post
    Does it come standard with a scoring blade that runs off the primary motor, or come standard with its own motor?
    The space needed is something I had a question about. If the table is only 8.5’ long, Why would it need 20’ front to back? Is it just so that you can actually walk in front of or behind it?
    Also if it has a 50” rip capacity to the right of blade, and you put say an 8’ sheet of plywood on the sliding table to the left of blade, wouldn’t this only be 12 ish feet of space from left to right?

    I’ll look into the mobility kit, but at 1500 lbs and its size; hopefully I can just set it and leave it.
    The front-back space for the saw needs to be about 20 feet because you have to slide from 8.5 feet in front of the blade to 8.5 feet in back of the blade in order to move the whole length of a sheet of plywood through the blade.

    The side-side distance is about 12 feet from the far right edge of the saw to the end of the outrigger fence. However, you will probably want to do something about dust collection. Most solutions for this come from the right of the blade. For me, this means about 12" of space to the right of the saw, making the total width 13'. Then, because the outrigger doesn't retract, you either have to have a few more feet to move around it, or take it off every time you use it. Now you're up to 16'+. It's not quite 20', but pretty close, and that's assuming you don't want to move around the right side of the saw as well.

    I have never tried the mobility kit, but I generally think that it's not a good idea to move the saw around. One of the first things you'll need to do is level it, and make sure you're not introducing any twist into the body of the saw that could throw the alignment off. Moving the saw around would require releveling the saw and checking the settings. It really is not designed to be moved. Maybe one of the smaller sliders that has a boxy body like Erik talked about might work (SC2 C, Nova Si 300 S), but the SC4E has that "T" shape he mentioned.

    My saw runs the scoring blade off of the main motor. I don't really see why you would need a separate motor, since the saw has a 5HP motor. The scoring blade is tiny and only cuts 1/8" or less into the material so I can't imagine it pulls too much power away from the main blade.


  3. #33
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I kinda agree with Brian regarding mobility. For a small short stroke slider that's more the size of a North American cabinet saw, it's less of an issue making it mobile. But for something even a little larger, leveling is somewhat important and it needs to be absolutely stable on the floor when stationary because of how weight gets cantilevered out at the extension of the wagon in either direction. If the shop floor is sloped, across the slope is doable as it with the slope. In both orientations leveling is relatively easy. Diagonal...not so much. If I had to have one particular tool that was physically stationary in my shop all the time, it would be the slider.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
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    158
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    For used machines Craigslist (widen your search area as needed), Woodweb, Sawmill Creek classifieds, MachineKing, Ex-Factory, machinery dealers that take old ones in trade. I like dealing directly with the seller but you have to be able to assess the machine's condition.
    nice, i was checking out woodweb yesterday. i'll look at the others as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian W Evans View Post
    The side-side distance is about 12 feet from the far right edge of the saw to the end of the outrigger fence. However, you will probably want to do something about dust collection. Most solutions for this come from the right of the blade. For me, this means about 12" of space to the right of the saw, making the total width 13'. Then, because the outrigger doesn't retract, you either have to have a few more feet to move around it, or take it off every time you use it. Now you're up to 16'+. It's not quite 20', but pretty close, and that's assuming you don't want to move around the right side of the saw as well.
    Thanks for this, helps me plan out where the saw is going to live in my shop. Kinda forgot about the dust collection port coming down from the ceiling. Glad I asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    If you are in a position to just save “ a few thousand more I suggest that”
    Maybe someday if my day job doubles or triples in earnings I'll be in the Patrick boat, but for now I think i'll be a happy hobbyist woodworker with single digit thousand dollars per machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    [/COLOR]My 8'6" slider wagon on the S315WS requires 19' end to end for the wagon to have complete travel from pulled all the way back to pushed all the way forward. That's why I mentioned that if I had to downsize in the future, I'd sacrifice wagon length but not give up the crosscut precision of a slider by going with something like an SC2 or SC3 sized machine. I have a Festool tracksaw if I really need to rip full sheets in that scenario anyway.

    ----
    Let's please remember the OP asked about "entry level". That certainly means different things to different people, but probably more of them think about the smaller SCM/Minimax and Hammer machines in that context rather than big, old iron, especially when space constraints come into play.
    yeah i was thinking minimax, hammer, grizzly.

    I'm sitting in my kitchen right now looking at our cabinets and thinking to myself, "I wonder what kind of saw was used to create these."

    Well you all have given me much to consider, and i'm great-full. Now i need to continue figuring out my layout of the shop and keep an eye out for somebody selling a Ferrari for a Yugo price.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Upland CA
    Posts
    5,540
    Jim,

    I can furnish you with an example of what I saved making a kitchen about 25 years ago.

    I am a competent DIY guy, certainly not a 'fine woodworker', and so was my neighbor, who was a carpenter/framer. We both put in a new kitchen back then. The kitchens were roughly the same size.


    He decided to buy pre-made white melamine cabinets and install them himself. He spent $4,000 for the cabinets, not counting the counter tops. They were installed by him in less than a week, then he had counter tops installed.

    I decided to make my kitchen, and do it in red oak, with raised panels and doors. I also made each cabinet and drawer to my wife's specs to hold her utensils and pans. Some drawers were 28" long for all the silverware, others were 23" long rather than the 18" that came with his pre-made cabinets. A special upper cabinet fit the microwave, and a hidden door in the end of a run housed a 4" deep medicine or spice cabinet.

    In the separate breakfast nook area I also made a cabinet as well as a two piece built in buffet. Each of the cabinets were made to fit the area they were in, with no filler strips like you get with pre-mades.

    My cost for materials was $2800 for lumber, finishing stain and poly, epoxy drawer slides, hinges and handles. As with his...not counting the counter top, and I installed it. I had a unisaw, jointer, and a benchtop router table with a PC 690. Wow, what a difference track saw would have made.

    To be fair, it took me two years, but I am a slow worker and she is patient, and I did it a cabinet at a time, putting up temporary counter top as I went. We also were extremely busy then, and took several vacations, and worked on other stuff around the house as needed. We did not let it interfere with our life, and were never without a working kitchen.

    15 years ago we moved, and the daughter and her family moved into the old house. As of last week the kitchen is still looking good. It took me 3 years to do the kitchen here....getting older.

    Prices have changed since then, but this should give you a little insight.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  6. #36
    Going to be listing a used Hammer K3 winner here in the classifieds, hopefully this weekend. Located near Boise, Idaho.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Rodoracio View Post
    Going to be listing a used Hammer K3 winner here in the classifieds, hopefully this weekend. Located near Boise, Idaho.
    This would be a good time for Jon to become a Contributor.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Potter View Post
    Jim,

    I can furnish you with an example of what I saved making a kitchen about 25 years ago.

    I am a competent DIY guy, certainly not a 'fine woodworker', and so was my neighbor, who was a carpenter/framer. We both put in a new kitchen back then. The kitchens were roughly the same size.


    He decided to buy pre-made white melamine cabinets and install them himself. He spent $4,000 for the cabinets, not counting the counter tops. They were installed by him in less than a week, then he had counter tops installed.

    I decided to make my kitchen, and do it in red oak, with raised panels and doors. I also made each cabinet and drawer to my wife's specs to hold her utensils and pans. Some drawers were 28" long for all the silverware, others were 23" long rather than the 18" that came with his pre-made cabinets. A special upper cabinet fit the microwave, and a hidden door in the end of a run housed a 4" deep medicine or spice cabinet.

    In the separate breakfast nook area I also made a cabinet as well as a two piece built in buffet. Each of the cabinets were made to fit the area they were in, with no filler strips like you get with pre-mades.

    My cost for materials was $2800 for lumber, finishing stain and poly, epoxy drawer slides, hinges and handles. As with his...not counting the counter top, and I installed it. I had a unisaw, jointer, and a benchtop router table with a PC 690. Wow, what a difference track saw would have made.

    To be fair, it took me two years, but I am a slow worker and she is patient, and I did it a cabinet at a time, putting up temporary counter top as I went. We also were extremely busy then, and took several vacations, and worked on other stuff around the house as needed. We did not let it interfere with our life, and were never without a working kitchen.

    15 years ago we moved, and the daughter and her family moved into the old house. As of last week the kitchen is still looking good. It took me 3 years to do the kitchen here....getting older.

    Prices have changed since then, but this should give you a little insight.
    Yeah, I cant imagine what you would spend now on all that if you spent $2800 on it 25 years ago.

    Now at age 37, i understand why my dad had so many unfinished projects. He had no dedicated shop and had 3 children. I have 2 kids and am so frustrated with tripping over all the stuff in the garage that I avoid larger projects. Smaller projects take longer.

    I think with my shop, and the right tools I can bang out the cabinets for the basement "finishing" job and take my time on the garage cabinets and redoing the kitchen. The kitchen isn't that bad anyways.

    Our last house had a 2.5 car garage, heated, cooled, with a 60SF half bath in it. It was awesome. New shop will be heated and cooled with just a utility sink, but it'll be awesome too.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    158
    What is a contributor? i'm assuming I donate to the forum and I get access to the classified section?

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
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    Cambridge Vermont
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    Money is always going to be a place people can't agree on. To some an extra few thousand is not really much of an issue while for others it's an extra piece of equipment or two. $2500 would get you a pretty nice 8" jointer during a sale. If it took a couple years to save spare money to come up with that $2500 that would mean your choice could be buy a nicer slider now and then wait years before adding another needed piece for your shop. Only you can set your budget because you know how much you will be able to save/ spend. What others can help you is with trying to figure out what tools you will want.

  11. #41
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Steffen View Post
    What is a contributor? i'm assuming I donate to the forum and I get access to the classified section?
    Exactly...and access to private messages, photos, etc. Thanks in advance for supporting this great forum site! Only six bucks minimum, too...

    ------

    I did my own kitchen in 2003. Including high-end appliances, I invested about $12K and $8K of that was the range. I did replace the uppers a couple years ago with deeper ones, but the material cost was minimal, honestly.

    For SCM/Minimax...here's a great contact to get help:

    --
    Sam Blasco
    Minimax Product Line Manager
    sam.blasco@scmgroup.com
    512-931-1962 (shop)
    512-796-3036 (mobile)
    866-216-2166 (main office/parts/tech services)

    For Hammer...contact Erik Loza who is a vendor member here to ascertain who the right representative is for your geography.







    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
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    Thanks, i'm now a contributor! and i emailed Sam Blasco. Has anybody heard of www.akinsmachinery.com? I think i emailed SCM usa and then somebody from Milwaukee branch of AkinsMachinery contacted me about my inquiry. They said they were a "gold" level SCM dealer. Just wonder if they're good.

  13. #43
    Specifically ask for Rick Akins. He is machine salesman and just human being gold.

    I’m not kidding. I’m not a Scm guy but man I sure wish I could buy my preferred brand from Rick as he is that nice or invested in his job. What one I don’t care as to me it has meant someone I could count on.

    Last shop I worked in I was the shop manager and organized and directed a few machine purchases. Akins also being the regional seller to my area. We purchased a dander and a planer and each and everytime I got calls in the following weeks just to make sure we were happy. When we were not he had a service tech out within two days max free of charge.

    Now Akins did get purchased by Wurth a few or couple years ahah but rick stayed aboard. We purchased both machines under Wurth and all was great.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Steffen View Post
    Thanks, i'm now a contributor! and i emailed Sam Blasco. Has anybody heard of www.akinsmachinery.com? I think i emailed SCM usa and then somebody from Milwaukee branch of AkinsMachinery contacted me about my inquiry. They said they were a "gold" level SCM dealer. Just wonder if they're good.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Specifically ask for Rick Akins. He is machine salesman and just human being gold.

    I’m not kidding. I’m not a Scm guy but man I sure wish I could buy my preferred brand from Rick as he is that nice or invested in his job. What one I don’t care as to me it has meant someone I could count on.

    Last shop I worked in I was the shop manager and organized and directed a few machine purchases. Akins also being the regional seller to my area. We purchased a dander and a planer and each and everytime I got calls in the following weeks just to make sure we were happy. When we were not he had a service tech out within two days max free of charge.

    Now Akins did get purchased by Wurth a few or couple years ahah but rick stayed aboard. We purchased both machines under Wurth and all was great.
    Well that is very nice to hear. I wonder if Rick is still there, most likely.

    The sales guy that emailed me in Milwaukee told me a bit about himself, was a local guy to Central Wisconsin for years before moving down there and getting into sales. I asked about 6 questions and he provided a ton of supportive/detail to his answers.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Lafayette, CA
    Posts
    203
    I'm probably (almost surely) in the minority here, but I'll add my 2 cents as well.... I had a Unisaw that I purchased in the mid-1980s and served me very well as a hobbyist. I was intrigued with the idea of a slider and based on my smallish shop size bought the Hammer 48x48, and sold the Uni. I was disappointed with the quality of the Hammer. The table extensions seemed flimsy, the fence was "clunky" and lacked a hairline cursor, and changing over to a dado blade was cumbersome... Since I mostly do furniture, and not cabinets, I solid it and bought a Sawstop, which I love. The safety feature of the Sawstop is a an important, but just as important is that it's a solid, accurate saw. I use track saw to deal with sheet goods, and make finish cuts with an Incra 5000 on the Sawstop. Note also that if you add a sliding table to a traditional cabinet saw, to try to have the best features of both types of saws, that (at least on the ones I've seen), you need to re-set the fence to 90 degrees each time; and then make a series of cuts to see how close you actually got it. If there are sliding attachments that keep the 90 degree setting (other than the very large Sawstop one, which takes up a LOT of space) that might be something I would add.

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