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Thread: I Have My Serious Doubts

  1. #1

    I Have My Serious Doubts

    Just went looking a direct replacement LED tubes. Home Depot carries the ETi brand, two tubes for about $16. But here's the killer. Life expectancy 50,000 YEARS. I doubt that!

  2. #2
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    Better put them in your will.

    PS, I think it is 50,000 hours.
    Last edited by Doug Garson; 06-23-2020 at 9:40 PM. Reason: added PS

  3. #3
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    I doubt they'll last half of that ...

  4. #4
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    I bought a Seiko watch that said it would be accurate to within 1 second for 50,000 years. I told the saleswoman that if it was off by two seconds in 20,000 years, I'd come looking for her.

    Even funnier in that it sets its time from the GPS satellites, which will deorbit and stop working tens of thousands of years before that.

    I always thought that was the funniest warranty I ever saw.
    You know what I want somebody to stay at my funeral? Look, hes moving!!!

    After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off.

    You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wrenn View Post
    Just went looking a direct replacement LED tubes. Home Depot carries the ETi brand, two tubes for about $16. But here's the killer. Life expectancy 50,000 YEARS. I doubt that!
    No one even tests for thousands of hours. The numbers are estimates, guesses, and marketing hype. And read carefully - some claim the life expectancy is for the LED element, not for the bulb or fixture.

    Here is some interesting reading.
    https://www.hyperikon.com/blog/how-l...s-really-last/

    They mention something rarely discussed - LEDs gradually lose brightness over time. This happens so gradually that without checking with a light meter over time or comparing to a new equivalent fixture you'll never know how much light they have lost. A few years ago one company was successfully sued when their lights lost a large amount of light in a relatively short time.

    My experience is LED bulbs and lamps fail much sooner, not because the LED quits but because the electronic circuit that drives the LEDs breaks. Over the years I've had numerous fixtures and bulbs suddenly fail completely or start flickering and then fail if left powered on. The bulbs are getting better and seem to be generating less heat than a few years ago so maybe this is improving. I would pay more for a longer-lasting bulb but how are you going to tell the quality at purchase time? I started writing the installation date on bulbs and saving receipts. Companies like Home Depot will replace bulbs and fixtures that don't last as long as claimed.

    JKJ

  6. #6
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    I like to put the receipt in a baggie and hide it somewhere in the fixture. Like sandwiched between the drywall and the fixture where it can not get lost.
    Bill D

  7. #7
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    I doubt the company will be in business in 100 years much less 50,000 years.
    You will be disapointed if you buy the "silver" gutters and downspouts from Hoe Depot. I doubt if they will give you your money back after you cut them up to take to the scrap yard or jeweler. I bought a bronze door plate and returned it when I realized it was aluminum. and any plating would soon wear off.
    Bil lD

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Lightstone View Post
    I bought a Seiko watch that said it would be accurate to within 1 second for 50,000 years. I told the saleswoman that if it was off by two seconds in 20,000 years, I'd come looking for her.

    Even funnier in that it sets its time from the GPS satellites, which will deorbit and stop working tens of thousands of years before that.

    I always thought that was the funniest warranty I ever saw.
    Of course, the reason they do that (1 second in 50,000 years) is that the specification for one year would not make much sense to you. So they extend it out until it's one second and that gives 50,000 years.

    The GPS uses atomic clocks and they're very accurate. If the watch sets itself from the GPS satellites the watch is not that accurate, it's the GPS that is that accurate. Normally clocks that set themselves from GPS (or from WWV) only do it once a day (or just a few times a day) and they free run between settings. I have a clock that sets itself from WWV and it will gain at least a second over a day. I've always liked clocks that set themselves so that I don't have to adjust them twice a year for daylight savings time (on and off).

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  9. #9
    I'm writing a paper on "noon marks", there are some old ones around here. People no longer know what they are. Some
    were real pieces of art ,and some were sticks in the ground. Around 1830 a number of cities set up "time balls" . They
    were like the new year ball ...but much faster! The latest practical note I've seen on them was a 1920 "Popular" magazine. Of
    course, radio time checks pretty much stopped all that. But I have a high tech ceiling noon mark in the kitchen, it's all
    done with mirrors.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    I'm writing a paper on "noon marks", there are some old ones around here. People no longer know what they are. Some
    were real pieces of art ,and some were sticks in the ground. Around 1830 a number of cities set up "time balls" . They
    were like the new year ball ...but much faster! The latest practical note I've seen on them was a 1920 "Popular" magazine. Of
    course, radio time checks pretty much stopped all that. But I have a high tech ceiling noon mark in the kitchen, it's all
    done with mirrors.
    Mel, that's so cool.

    Now you've got me wanting to take a picture of an Analemma from my house.

    Of course, you could spend $100K on an Audemars Piquet "Equation of Time" watch (Bill Clinton has one, or at least one named after him, calibrated to the White House location). Audemars Piquet Equation of Time Watch

    I'd love to build a Noon Mark on the house. SWMBO, I'm sure, would have some objections.
    Last edited by Alan Lightstone; 06-26-2020 at 8:25 AM.
    You know what I want somebody to stay at my funeral? Look, hes moving!!!

    After I ask a stranger if I can pet their dog and they say yes, I like to respond, "I'll keep that in mind" and walk off.

    You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.

  11. #11
    If you install the lights in your shop, that life expectancy is probably true. I mean, my wife understands-- when I say a project will take 3 days, that's 3 "workshop" days, which I think equals out to about 3 normal Earth weeks at last check.
    Licensed Professional Engineer,
    Unlicensed Semi Professional Tinkerer

  12. #12
    Thanks,Alan. An obilisk is a good form for a noon mark. People seem to have enjoyed having complicated noon marks
    as much as we enjoy the expensive watches of today. There was one in 19th century Paris that was heard , not seen. A small
    canon was set up each day to fire at noon. Magnifying glass would burn a horse hair for Big Bang !

  13. #13
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    A few thoughts on this...

    Solar time is really inaccurate, by today's standards. The actual time of solar noon varies throughout the year. Averaged over a year, it is pretty accurate; but day-day, it is not. Ever notice those figure-eight looking diagrams on globes and world maps? Those are for the correction of solar noon by time of year. It has to do with the fact that the earth does not complete the same fraction of a revolution around the sun every day, because the earth's orbit is elliptical, not circular. Thus our angular velocity along the orbit is not constant throughout the year.

    When navigation was accomplished by observing the location of the sun and stars, latitude could be determined relatively independent of time (all you needed was date). But determining longitude required a reasonably accurate measurement of time. On a rolling ship at sea, pendulum clocks were ineffective. The invention of pendulum-less (fly-wheel) clocks solved the problem, and allowed mariners to determine their longitude fairly accurately.

    There is a small museum in Ogden UT (near the John Moses Browning Museum, BTW), that had (still has?) a fascinating exhibit about the notion of time, and how it has evolved with technology over time.

    The need for more and more precise time has increased with the speed and reliability of transportation.

    When rain-swollen creeks and rivers could delay travel for days or weeks, writing to someone in the next county that you would "be there at 10:45 AM on the fifteenth of next month" was worthless. "God willing and the creek don't rise" accompanied most predictions of date of arrival. And often, date was by week or month, not day, depending on the length of travel.

    Before the railroads, each town had its own time, based on mean solar noon. Railroads, being interested in avoiding running their trains into each other, had time tables for train arrivals/departures, based on mean solar time at the railroad's headquarters, with corrections listed for each station. However, as railroads increased leasing of trackage rights to each other, they had to coordinate their trains by converting their time tables for the mean solar noon difference between the two railroad headquarters' cities. So a given train's time depended on whose tracks it was using. All these corrections were error prone, which led to serious accidents. To solve the problem, the railroads eventually lobbied congress to establish a standardized time system for the entire country, which resulted in the creation of our time zones.

    The speed of transportation also applies to information. Networks need accurate time for coordinating and securing information on the network. Because networks are extremely fast, they need extremely accurate timing. For quite a while, networks have used GPS-based timing. However, the dangers of spoofing and jamming GPS have required more advanced technologies to protect access to GPS, or to live without it for longer periods of time. Atomic clocks are now available in extremely small, rugged (but not inexpensive) packages. Anti-jamming and anti-spoofing technologies have improved to make it harder to interfere with a receiver's access to GPS. GPS "firewalls" can protect GPS time of day access, and provide an accurate, temporary, substitute time reference during interruptions. A prolonged attack and outage on the GPS system would not just hinder our military, but our day to day navigation and communication, and the networks we rely upon for information and commerce.

    Now you know more than you ever wanted about time...

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

  14. #14
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    The longest lasting flourescent lights I found were Lights of America from Walmart (ugh, but they beat the Lowe's and HD fixtures by years). Walmart has done away with them in leiu of LED strip lights. I had one of four flourescent light fixtures die and decided I didn't want the combination of flourscent and LED. So I swapped them all all four out. It wasn't until after the fact that I noticed the room was much darker. Then I noticed the lumen output...difference. The double LED strip lights are equal to ONE T8 light bulb. I took out 8 T8 bulbs and installed 4 LED fixtures. The room has half the lumens. I have yet to find a 4 foot LED light fixture that has the same output as the dual T8 fixtures. To maintain the same lighting amount, I'm looking at putting in additional outlets and doubling the number of LED fixtures. Yeah, not a happy camper here.

  15. #15
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    I was using the Light of America flourescent fixtures from Walmart which had a great warranty. Dealing with the manufacturer for warranty return was awful (plus I had to keep track of the reciept). I got to the point where I would by a new one from Walmart when one died, and return the dead on the receipt a few weeks later.

    I once spoke with Newpro windows. They stated they are a 50 year gaurantee. I asked if they gauranteed they would around in 50 years. They replied 'no', to which I asked "then what good is the warranty?"

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