Wooden Mitre Box, or Stanley 150 Type Thing?

[Erich Weidner]

I would like to have something for picture framing. I was using the SCMS, but it is pain to get the cut in just the right place.
I see vintage Mitre saws/things like the Stanley 150, also just a 45 degree cut in a bench hook or two sided U shaped wooden mitre box.

My cuts are still not dead on 90 degrees. Require some refinement. I guess a jig or Stanley 150 type thing would make this in one cut w/o needing to shoot or clean up the mitre?

I don't see myself doing much more than picture frames. I doubt I"ll be doing crown molding anytime soon. What are other folks using?

[Stew Denton]

Erich, back when I was working for a carpenter we had a good metal miter box and also had used the wooden ones with slots cut in them.

The problem with the wooden ones is they have a bit too much slop when new, and they wear in use to where the accuracy of the box becomes pretty poor.

I can't speak about the bench hook type from actual use, so will have to forgo comments on that type.

I can say that when cutting molding for carpentry, when using a good metal miter box and back saw, that the end grade portion of the molding that you cut, especially if it is a soft wood, will be "fuzzy." It will not be extremely smooth on the end.

When you are talking about window or door casing this fuzzy end grain will cause the joint to be less tight than you would like, but it is not nearly as critical as it would be with picture frames. Some times I would do some trimming of the resulting end grain with a sharp utility knife or maybe some sandpaper if I remember correctly. That was almost 50 years ago, and I can't be absolutely sure about using sandpaper, but am fairly sure I did use it some.

At any rate what I am saying is that you may not get around having to do some shooting. My experience with the good miter box back then, and with my current vintage Millers Falls Langdon miter box is that to get "perfect" joints you may still have to fool with it some.

Millers Falls, and others as well I think, made miter boxes that were specifically designed for cutting picture frames. There are currently several listed on that auction site. If you do a search on it for "picture frame miter box," some will show up. Other companies besides Millers Falls also made them if I recall correctly.

Another thing that will help is the use of something like a small SHARP back saw like a 12" or 14" with a lot of teeth, may a 15 or 18 point, with the minimal amount of set that will work. That kind of saw will only work with a fairly small miter box, like the ones made for picture frames and the like.

If I were wanting to buy one, I would be interested in a vintage model rather than a more modern one.

Regards,

Stew

[Erich Weidner]

Stew,

I guess the rub is that on my power SCMS the joints produced were perfectly adequate for glue up right off the saw (it is a decent saw blade). I'd hate it if I couldn't get a similar result by hand saw alone. But if it is, that is what it is.

[Jim Koepke]

I would like to have something for picture framing.

How many picture frames are you planning?

For serious work you may want something like this:

Miter Trimmer.jpg

This is in no way an endorsement of this product. There are many other brands, including on the used market. These other makes and models may be more appropriate for your needs.

This was found at an estate sale promoters warehouse sale:

1124 Miter Box & Saw.jpg

My recollection is it came home for $5. Besides it there are two other miter boxes in the shop and the parts for another. This miter box and saw would likely cost more to ship than it is worth.

If there are junk dealers or second hand dealers in your area, it is good to get to know them. My rust hunting time over the year is less than an hour a week. Sometimes it is none for weeks. Sometimes Candy goes with me for a ride on a sunny weekend looking for promising yard sales. It is just getting to find places along your regular travels. Some of the folks on my travels have some interesting stuff, and the turnover is happening.

For picture framing you will likely want to also use a shooting board for the best fit.

Here is an old post of mine that uses a shooting board set up to fit molding > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?224747

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Jim,

I don't do a ton of picture frames normally. But right now I have a backlog of about 6 frames to make. I have all the stuff for glazing them and mat cutting. I just can't spend $300 to have a double or triple mat frame done at a shop. It hurts my soul.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

I don't do a ton of picture frames normally. But right now I have a backlog of about 6 frames to make. I have all the stuff for glazing them and mat cutting. I just can't spend $300 to have a double or triple mat frame done at a shop. It hurts my soul.

Are you buying ready to go framing material and just need to cut and assemble?

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

Do you have a back saw or other saw for cutting miters?

jtk

[Erich Weidner]

Are you buying ready to go framing material and just need to cut and assemble?

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

Do you have a back saw or other saw for cutting miters?

jtk

I do both, ready made frames, and solid wood that I shape in the shop.

I don't currently have a shooting board set up for 45 degree cuts. Also, with the premade frames, spelching at the ends from shooting wouldn't be sightly.

[Phil Mueller]

If you get good miters off the power saw, you may just want to stick with that.

I have dialed in my Millers Falls miter box to the best of my ability and still find the need to shoot the ends for a perfect fit. On these vintage boxes, the saw was tuned to the specific box it was sold with (primarily tooth set to track perfect for the box). It’s rare to find this match in the vintage market. Invariably, even though the miter box itself is set up perfectly, there is a good chance the saw will track slightly off...unless you take the time to dial in the saw.

My standard procedure for picture frame miters is to cut a hair long on the miter box and either shoot it to length, or use a vintage miter trimmer like the one Jim posted above. As you mentioned, blowing out a chip from shooting is always a possibility...so the miter trimmer eliminates that possibility and provides a glass smooth cut.

Alternatively, I’ve seen a number of nice frames made with lap or bridle joints, which eliminate the miter cut altogether. I also saw a video from a guy that makes smaller frames from a solid board...cutting out the inside...

[Jim Matthews]

A robust Japanese "pull saw" without a stiffening spine can through cut to any depth.

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/q...saw-miter-box/

[Frederick Skelly]

If you can set up a shooting board, the sawing doesn't have to be dead on accurate. You could use a simple set up for sawing the ends.

jtk

+1. Handsaw, a sharp hand plane and a shooting board works very well for me.

[Blake M Williams]

Look up images of shooting boards and see the end grain of the pieces. I have added this to my must have list. Fine saw is a must too. I restored a miter box but I have recently learned that just using that crazy long fine tooth saw against a batten is awesome. Straight easy cuts. But a shooting board would make the cuts smoother.

[chris carter]

I have a 150. I do not use it for precision cuts. It’s entirely possible that mine is defective, but essentially while it has been 100% dead on with cutting angle, the nature of the spring mechanism means that it allows some “play” vertically. When setting the spring side, it kind of produces a subtle angle that I have not been able to adjust away. So when I make my cut, I have to give the saw a subtle twist toward the non-spring side that is the fixed side of the guide and is dead vertical.

The advantage of the 150 is that it is compact which is what I love about it. I don’t have a ton of space and don’t want a giant miter box taking up space. It also will accept almost any saw which makes it very flexible. But I would consider it a carpentry tool. I would absolutely cut crown molding with it or window casings. But I would not cut furniture pieces or picture frames with it without expecting to have to do a lot of shooting. Generally speaking, I can make more accurate cuts by hand than with the 150. There are other miter boxes out there that are far less convenient and flexible, but considerably more accurate vertically.

If I were going to start a side-business making picture frames I would buy a miter trimmer in less than a second.

[Winston Chang]

I've never used one of these, but there's also the David Barron 45 degree magnetic saw guide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BwJmKJOUhY

I came across a thread on this forum from several years back where people got worked up about the Barron dovetail guide being a crutch, but since we're already talking about miter boxes and shooting boards here, the 45-degree guide should be fair game.

[steven c newman]

IF the Stanley #150 is adjusted the way it is supposed to be....cuts will be ready right off the saw. One tip: add a narrow strip between the part and the fence....any "fuzz will show up on the strip, instead of the part.

I usually use my Stanley #358...even on mitre cuts....doesn't take very many full length strokes of the sharp saw, to make a cut...

Take the same kind of care to set up the mitre box, as you would any other "machine"...they work just fine...do NOT buy the Jorgenson style ones....the ones that look like a giant hacksaw blade....too flexy..

[Erich Weidner]

I've decided to sell my power SCMS to free up the shop space. I'm however now back re-reading this thread and am still not really clear on what my best option is. I looked on ebay just now and I don't see many options for a vintage dedicated picture frame saw.

Though I don't anticipate working on crown moulding or making octagonal frames... it might be nice to have the option if I'm going through the trouble of getting a miter saw.
Do the vintage general purpose things like the Stanly 150 just make rough cuts? Or is it just that one might need to have the saw retoothed for finer work.

I wonder what the originals were used for, if they don't make good clean cuts as some in this thread have indicated? Seems like if one had to take the wood to the shooting board after using the miter saw anyway, why not just freehand cut it and shoot to precise line?