Iron locking to stone?

[Michael J Evans]

Hi All,
I recently started using diamond stones in my sharpening process. I used to use sandpaper followed by ark, but now I use diamond then black ark and strop. Anyways on a couple of plane iron backs that I was trying to polish up, I noticed that my Irons are getting liquid locked to the stone, this happens on the 1200 grit stone. It makes flattening difficult because as I'm moving it back and forth the iron skids across the surface it that makes any sense. Basically it has spots it slides right across and others it wants to stop. I've attached a picture of a super thick (1/8" or so) single iron. It is locked to the stone, no external support. It happens on either side of the stone and with the last three irons I've used. I use glass cleaner as the liquid to float the swarf. Never happened on my Arks before. Is there any issue with this, or just a normal occurrence?

Thank you,
Michael
plane locked.jpg

[Michael Bulatowicz]

That’s normal when your iron and stone are close to perfectly mated to each other (hopefully, both very flat). A higher viscosity fluid can help prevent this; perhaps you should try your honing oil on the diamond stone. It won’t hurt the diamond stone and will reduce the tendency for the iron and stone to lock to each other.

[Jim Matthews]

If you're using water, a drop of soap might help.

Like you, I've not seen this on my Arkies - only on water stones of very fine grit.

[Lee Schierer]

When my ceramic stones were new, if you placed them face to face they would stick together. I had to slide them apart to separate them.

[Stew Denton]

Michael, just sat down to take a break, and saw your post.

The problem is more related to surface tension than viscosity, I think. Water has a much higher surface tension than does the honing oils that are used in oil stones. The surface tension of the water/alcohol glass cleaner, being much higher than that of oils, although lower than that of water alone, will want to stick the two surfaces together. I think the suggestion of a honing oil given above will help in this regard.

Higher viscosity will have a tendency to want to hold the stone and iron apart as you push the iron across the diamond stone more than a less viscose honing fluid. For that reason I would consider trying an oil that might be a little lower in viscosity. Perhaps you could cut something like mineral oil with something like an odorless mineral spirits to make it a bit less viscose. Some folks use WD40, which will have similar properties and thus also be lower viscosity than something like an uncut mineral oil.

Regards,

Stew

[James Pallas]

When the blade or iron is very flat and the stone is likewise you need to keep moving. Sometimes when the tool is very flat but has a wear bevel it can be difficult. I have found that it pays to use a coarser stone to remove the wear bevel rather than fight the “stiction”. I know that may seem counter productive when you have such a beautiful mirror finish on that back. You still have to get the wear bevel done.

[Michael J Evans]

Thank you all who replied.
I suspected it was just a surface tension issue, but wanted to confirm my thoughts. I will give both 3 in 1 oil and WD-40 a try as I have plenty on hand. Will report back tonight.

[Eric Rathhaus]

Michael - I've also had this happen to the extent that I can feel suction between the stone and blade when trying to remove it, and it always happens when I have more of the iron on the sharpening surface. Try honing just the top inch of the iron back. I use stand paper so wear patterns aren't an issue for me. You could also try the ruler trick.

[Richard Line]

I've used diamond stones for years. When I got my 1st ones, I saw a recommendation on the DMT site to use water, with a few (very few) drops of liquid soap in the solution. I been doing that, and haven't had the problem. The soap greatly reduces the surface tension.

[Aaron Rosenthal]

+1 with Richard.
I use a spray bottle mixing mostly water, and a few drops of liquid laundry detergent. Makes a great honing solution.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I use Smith's honing solution, it contains rust inhibitors. When I used water, some of my diamond stones started to show a bit of rust in places. This also works on Arkansas stones, but I have a bunch of Dan's honing oil, and at least four other brands that I can use for that. Obviously I use water on my water stones :-)

Note that I can buy Smith's on amazon, my hardware store, and I have seen it at other places as well.

[Winston Chang]

When I used water, some of my diamond stones started to show a bit of rust in places.

I've seen rust on my diamond plate. At first I thought it was the plate rusting, but I realized later that it was the swarf that was rusting. Now I usually rinse off the plate after using it and I don't see rust anymore, even though I leave it wet after rinsing it. I can't say if this applies to all diamond plates, but it is true of the one I have.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I've seen rust on my diamond plate. At first I thought it was the plate rusting, but I realized later that it was the swarf that was rusting. Now I usually rinse off the plate after using it and I don't see rust anymore, even though I leave it wet after rinsing it. I can't say if this applies to all diamond plates, but it is true of the one I have.

Guess I could not tell you which I had. Most of my plates are DMT. I always rinsed in hot water (not scalding, just hot) then dried them the best I could so that they would air dry faster, Still had a problem.
The most common thing to hit my diamond plates are knives and most of those are stainless, but stainless will still rust, it just takes a little more time.

[Mike Henderson]

+1 with Richard.
I use a spray bottle mixing mostly water, and a few drops of liquid laundry detergent. Makes a great honing solution.

I agree with Aaron and Richard - try adding some dishwashing soap to your water.

Mike