New hand tooler advice

[Blake M Williams]

I mentioned that I am trying to go completely hand tools for all my inside projects.

Project is a bedside table. Panelled sides and door.

First, I'm using my stanley no 78 and I dont really like it. Constantly cleaning out shavings and having to check that the depth stop didnt move. And where does my left hand go? I'm trying to avoid the arm so I'm on top but its uncomfortable. That's one plus that the no 45 has I think is the knob.

For going across the grain I clamping a scrap piece on the cut line, grabbed my 26 inch mitre saw and it was awesome! Chiseled out the excess. Amazing fast. I cant wait to try this out on dados like someone suggested on here.

I recently had a thread about saw sharpening. I'm glad to say that I can now finish this project because of it. Or at least cut the panels to size. I used the rabbet plane on them.

Holdfasts. I love using these. Couple good whacks and good to go. But I'm noticing I kinda dent the wood. Would leather fix this and keep the piece from sliding?

My wife bought me a vise as a Christmas present and I would like to start using it. Currently I have a tiny 6 inch vise with wood to make it bigger but pieces still slip in it. The new one is a 9 inch quick release. It has a ( is it called a dog) on the front jaw. I would like to use this feature but I need to make some bench dogs. Am I paranoid to think I will hit the vise or the vise dog with my plane iron? Should I make wood faces that also cover top edge?

This is a lot I know but I'm starting to see that these little things add up.

[Curt Putnam]

Put a pad between your holdfast and project. I have yet to hit a vise or dog with an iron or chisel. Just make sure that said dogs are below the surface of the piece you are working on. If you use brass or wood dogs, they will get the damage, not your iron.

[Richard Line]

I finally like my 78, but it has been a while (years) to get there. Mine is, was, a new one, and it wasn't made quite as good as in the olden days. However, some special tuning turned it around. Google something like 'tuning a Stanley 78'. (I forget the site I found, perhaps on youtube.) Look for a response that indicates tuning one of the new ones. I had to do some filing to the side of the mouth, the blade, and the cap iron to get the shaving to flow out of the plane in pretty good shape. My left hand is used to push or pressure the plane into the side of the cut. I drilled a hole in the end of a 1 inch (or larger) dowel to use as a handhold for that sideways pressure.

[David Eisenhauer]

I have scrap suede leather pieces glued to the faces of my holdfasts and my vise. The holdfasts don't dent the wood and the vise does not slip. I used contact cement (think laminate glue) to glue the leather to the metal. Using a 78 can leave the left hand vulnerable to getting nicked by the exposed left corner end of the blade. Can't help you there because it has been too long since I had to use mine since I switched to a wooden rebate plane. I definitely prefer the simple wooden plane with straight wooden sides that do not attack my fingers. The vise dog should be retractable so that it stays down below (protected from your plane iron as is the entire metal vise) the top of your bench. I would venture to say most folks use wooden bench dogs (either round or square) to avoid damage to plane irons if contact is made. I see no reason to spend the $ on the store-bought metal dogs when it is, at the very least, simple to drill 3/4" holes in a benchtop and buy some 3/4" dowel stock. Yes, you will have to do some sanding, etc to make the dogs slide easily, but nothing for a high stepper Take a look at some woodworking bench design books/photos/information/discussions that will help with the layout or positioning of that vise for most effective use. Definitely get some ideas of where exactly to mount the vise if you do want to use the dog because the exact location of the dog affects it's effective use.

[Blake M Williams]

Thanks guys. I'll get my hands on some 3/4 dowel. And I'll look up filing the mouth of my 78. Even nice thin shavings would bunch up so I wonder if I have the same problem. I have some leather, I'll cut a couple of pieces and see how it works with my holdfasts. I was thinking a wooden plane might be nicer to hold.

[Jim Koepke]

[edited]

1) First, I'm using my stanley no 78 and I dont really like it. Constantly cleaning out shavings and having to check that the depth stop didnt move. And where does my left hand go? I'm trying to avoid the arm so I'm on top but its uncomfortable. That's one plus that the no 45 has I think is the knob.

2) For going across the grain I clamping a scrap piece on the cut line, grabbed my 26 inch mitre saw and it was awesome! Chiseled out the excess. Amazing fast. I cant wait to try this out on dados like someone suggested on here.

3) Holdfasts. I love using these. Couple good whacks and good to go. But I'm noticing I kinda dent the wood. Would leather fix this and keep the piece from sliding?

4) Am I paranoid to think I will hit the vise or the vise dog with my plane iron? Should I make wood faces that also cover top edge?

The hardest part to improve your #78 may be finding a fastener to use. My Record #778 is based on the Stanley #78 with some improvements and some things that are the opposite of improvement. For a long time my Stanley #45 was preferred for cutting rabbets. That is until my skill became better and a few modifications were made:

Front Wood on #778.jpg

This has made it much more comfortable to use. There is also a piece of rosewood attached to the fence. The depth stop had a propensity to slip in use. So a bit of PSA abrasive paper was used on the depth stop and just for good measure the large washer is also backed with PSA abrasive paper.

There have been a few posts and articles on how the screws for the depth stop and rods some times loosen during use. Some have made padded wrenches to give these just a little extra torque (it doesn't take much more than finger tight) when setting up their planes. Over time it has become my habit to check the screws often while working with combination or fenced plane.

This is a little about the front handle on the Record #778 > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?254976

2) Dados for shelves or drawer runners are a very useful part of woodworking. My preference is for stopped dados. They look so much better:

Dado - Stopped vs Through Shelves.jpg

Notch the corner to the depth of the dado and then round over the corner. Totally opening up the joint makes it disappear.

3) A block of wood under the holdfast works for me and is often needed on thin pieces of wood.

4) We share a fear on hitting metal dogs with a plane. Enough of my wooden dogs have had their tops shaved to know any metal dogs on my bench will be replaced with wood if possible.

jtk

[Jim Matthews]

Have a browse of Derek Cohen's website. I found it really helpful as it's organized around real World projects.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/

[Blake M Williams]

Guys you have once again pointed me towards the perfect threads thank you! I think I will look and see if I have a longer screw for the bull nose spot and make a knob/wedge like you did and I always enjoy browsing through Derek's page.

[Jim Koepke]

Guys you have once again pointed me towards the perfect threads thank you! I think I will look and see if I have a longer screw for the bull nose spot and make a knob/wedge like you did and I always enjoy browsing through Derek's page.

Blake, Stanley always used odd threads on their fasteners. You may find it easier to have a deep counterbored hole for the screw that is already in the bull nose spot to hold a front knob.

jtk

[Robert Engel]

IMO the 78 is one of the poorest designs of all the Stanleys I've used. Frankly, for me, its a horrible tool, way too small and way to finicky regarding settings, never giving consistent results. That said, yeah, maybe I'm using it wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, its sits on a display shelf (along with the 45 :-).

My suggestion is to invest in a good quality tool such as a shoulder plane or rabbet block plane.

Crossgrain, I've found it best to not rely on knickers. Score with a marking knife and repeat as you go.

[Blake M Williams]

Forgive my ignorance but, is a shoulder plane a rabbet plane without nickers, depth stop, or fence? Or is there a difference in the iron angle or something?

I feel I might interchange the two words incorrectly.

[Jim Matthews]

Rabbet (or Rebate) planes and shoulder planes have similar functions.

Rabbet planes typically have a more upright blade, with the sharpened bevel facing down. (My preference is for these, with a wooden body. )

Most of the shoulder planes I have seen have a low angle blade with the sharpened bevel facing up.

Some swear by shoulder planes for cutting endgrain, or trying the "shoulder" of tenons.

As you get better sawing results with practice, this becomes less important. It's also possible to fit tenons with a sharp chisel, at less expense.

[Jim Koepke]

Forgive my ignorance but, is a shoulder plane a rabbet plane without nickers, depth stop, or fence? Or is there a difference in the iron angle or something?

I feel I might interchange the two words incorrectly.

Rabbet (or rebate) plane is the name for a broad category of a type of planes. The thing they all have in common is the blade extending all the way to at least one edge of the plane.

A shoulder plane falls into the category of rabbet planes. It is usually has a lower bedding angle than other rabbet planes. Though some are made with a blade as small as 1/4", they are more common in the 3/4" to 1-1/4" size. They were originally marketed as being for cabinet makers and trimming on tenons.

jtk

[Mike Allen1010]

IMO the 78 is one of the poorest designs of all the Stanleys I've used. Frankly, for me, its a horrible tool, way too small and way to finicky regarding settings, never giving consistent results. That said, yeah, maybe I'm using it wrong, but I don't think so. Anyway, its sits on a display shelf (along with the 45 :-).

My suggestion is to invest in a good quality tool such as a shoulder plane or rabbet block plane.

Crossgrain, I've found it best to not rely on knickers. Score with a marking knife and repeat as you go.

+1 to Roberts comments. Upgrade from Stanley 78 to an LV fenced rabbit plane is one of the best hand tools investments I've ever made. Much easier and more accurate to set up and use. For me a screening question in deciding on buying a new tool is how often will I need to do the task is intended for? Planing rabbits definitely passes the hurdle of a fundamental task worth investing in.

I also agree with David and Jim that wooden bench dogs are definitely a better option than metal. Virtually all of my wooden bench dogs (three-quarter inch oak dowels) have been thoroughly chopped up by plane irons and saw blades that would've been catastrophic with metal dogs.

Leather glued to holding surfaces of holdfast and vice faces is super helpful – increases holding power and avoids marring workpieces.

Bench/vice workholding capability is probably one of the most important fundamental aspects of making hand tool woodworking enjoyable. Nothing like being able to quickly and securely clamp your work piece and get to work. Think carefully about vices and dogs. Look at all the historical models of various bench types – these are designs that have proven their utility for literally thousands of years. You'll see a consistent pattern of vices/dogs suited for all key workholding tasks. The 9 inch quick release vice you mentioned is definitely an improvement over what you have now, but may not be enough for all the work you want to do. There are a million variations and YMMV, but personally I find having both a face vice and a tail vice essential – maybe something to consider overtime.

Good luck Blake – I admire your enthusiasm and energy! Keep us posted on your progress – build pictures are always welcome!

Cheers, Mike

[Jim Koepke]

I find having both a face vice and a tail vice essential

Agreed, though to avoid any confusion my tendency is to do work using vises and quietly enjoy my vices.

Back to Mike's point, even with a myriad of ways to hold things on my bench having two more offers many more work holding options.

My bench top is not Swiss Cheese but it does have extra holes to assist in holding pieces during various operations. One example would be a few dog holes set in parallel to the edge row. With a dog at one end of a board and a couple in a pair of parallel dog holes a board will stay put when planing.

jtk