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Thread: Major surgery on workbench top?

  1. #16
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    Mar 2003
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    Here's a Makita 10" circular saw which would do the job. https://www.amazon.com/Makita-HS0600...87009157&psc=1

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Buxton View Post
    Here's a Makita 10" circular saw which would do the job. https://www.amazon.com/Makita-HS0600...87009157&psc=1
    Big Foot and other beam saws come up on CL often. But at the price of the Makita above that might be a way to go. There's no way I can handle the table and push it through a table saw or bandsaw.

  3. #18
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    Feb 2008
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    Is it still separating or stable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Mathews View Post
    I like the idea of filling the gaps with resin and/or resin mixed with sawdust. If that doesn't work I can always revisit the major surgery idea. Any recommendation on a type of resin if there are differences? I suppose it should be thin enough to run down into the small gaps.
    To me, for a workbench that top certainly looks perfect and well worth saving.

    You said "...the glue joints have separated in places." Does this mean they separated a while back and haven't changed since, or does this mean they are still separating and will possibly separate more? If the latter (did you move the bench to a drier climate?) the wood may still be shrinking. In that case filling the gaps with resin might just be a bandaid and the boards may continue to pull apart. But if the boards separated long ago and haven't changed since, then the resin should be fine.

    When I built a table with a top like that from kiln-dried hard maple I drilled holes and pulled the boards tight in three or four places with 3/8" all-thread steel rods, washers, and nuts. I then glued an extra board on either side to hide the steel. I built the table in the late '70s and we are still using it today. It tried to separate in the 80s when we put it directly adjacent to a kitchen stove and years of heat from the cooktop dried of the ends of some boards on one end. This caused several short gaps but the threaded rods kept the top together and the gaps couldn't go far. Several years after moving the table to a new location I filled the short gaps with resin and there has been no further movement in 15 years.

    The point is if the wood is still changing, the top may continue to separate and resin won't stop it. Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional. Flatten with a plane or router sled, and fill what gaps annoy you.

  4. #19
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    Don’t bother trying to rip it down. As said, it’ll be too heavy and bulky to rip on a TS, even if you had a 12” blade (as said a 10” blade will not cut all the way through). Guided circuits saw, yes, that’ll do it. But think of all the burn and slow cutting the saw would do, even if you could make the cuts all parallel. Then you’d need to joint and plane them all, and would have to add more wood to the new glue up. You’re in for an adventure if you go down that road.

    Just fill the cracks, router sled flatten, and use Masonite or not.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    ...Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional.
    Going over this in my mind. Assume the top is about 24" wide after removing the tool tray. How would you drill through the top accurately? I had problems keeping the drill straight for 8" deep holes when I built my lumber rack. I'd probably come out the top or bottom surface trying to go 24".
    Brian

    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger or more complicated...it takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." - E.F. Schumacher

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    To me, for a workbench that top certainly looks perfect and well worth saving.

    You said "...the glue joints have separated in places." Does this mean they separated a while back and haven't changed since, or does this mean they are still separating and will possibly separate more? If the latter (did you move the bench to a drier climate?) the wood may still be shrinking. In that case filling the gaps with resin might just be a bandaid and the boards may continue to pull apart. But if the boards separated long ago and haven't changed since, then the resin should be fine.

    When I built a table with a top like that from kiln-dried hard maple I drilled holes and pulled the boards tight in three or four places with 3/8" all-thread steel rods, washers, and nuts. I then glued an extra board on either side to hide the steel. I built the table in the late '70s and we are still using it today. It tried to separate in the 80s when we put it directly adjacent to a kitchen stove and years of heat from the cooktop dried of the ends of some boards on one end. This caused several short gaps but the threaded rods kept the top together and the gaps couldn't go far. Several years after moving the table to a new location I filled the short gaps with resin and there has been no further movement in 15 years.

    The point is if the wood is still changing, the top may continue to separate and resin won't stop it. Adding support rods now may keep it together and functional. Flatten with a plane or router sled, and fill what gaps annoy you.

    The top was moved from inland SoCal to northern Arizona, a much drier climate. There were gaps in the planks when I got it but I can't recall if they are getting worse. It's made out of such nice wood that it saddens me that it's in this condition. That reason alone is motivation enough to give it the fit and finish it deserves. Derek's article is also inspiring and encouraging. I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm currently leaning in the rebuild direction. There are a few projects that need to be done beforehand and a firm game plan put together. One thing I'll probably need to do is build a temporary workbench for and during the rebuild. It would be cumbersome not to have something to work on. I was thinking perhaps to build one of Rob Cosman's starter workbenches, the one he provides to his Purple Heart recipients, and give it away after my rebuild is complete. That's my beginning thoughts for now.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Mathews View Post
    The top was moved from inland SoCal to northern Arizona, a much drier climate. There were gaps in the planks when I got it but I can't recall if they are getting worse. It's made out of such nice wood that it saddens me that it's in this condition. That reason alone is motivation enough to give it the fit and finish it deserves. Derek's article is also inspiring and encouraging. I haven't made up my mind yet but I'm currently leaning in the rebuild direction. There are a few projects that need to be done beforehand and a firm game plan put together. One thing I'll probably need to do is build a temporary workbench for and during the rebuild. It would be cumbersome not to have something to work on. I was thinking perhaps to build one of Rob Cosman's starter workbenches, the one he provides to his Purple Heart recipients, and give it away after my rebuild is complete. That's my beginning thoughts for now.
    Someone gave me a section of bowling alley about 6' long that made a good temporary work bench. Very hard wood, tough, perfectly flat. I set it on top of a old kitchen cabinet base. Still using it 20 years later as a table to hold my incubator and hatcher. A google search of bowling alley sections for sale gave me a bunch of hits.

  8. #23
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    Mar 2006
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    Austin Texas
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    A side note on a Masonite top - I have had a TS outfeed/assembly/glue up/etc table for 35 years or so and it works well for those tasks, but Masonite makes for a slippery surface when using it as a wood working bench for joinery cutting/chopping/planning/etc. Even holdfasts show deterioration in their holding power.
    David

  9. #24
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    Adding threaded rod through a laminated benchtop might keep it from falling apart but it won't stop it from expanding/contracting and doing unwanted things during seasonal RH changes. I had a customer call me to fix a table top they had had shipped from Brazil to NY, from a location where the RH didn't change much year round to one where it changes a lot. This table had been handmade at least 50 years ago and the maker had installed 1/2" rods through the top in several locations. The boards were at least 3" thick and about 12" wide and the top was about 4' wide. The boards were splined together, no glue. It was bowed at least an inch when I first saw it and I could see where the washers and nuts on the ends of the threaded rods had held fast as the wood expanded, causing the top to both bow and the washers to crush the wood in the holes where they were located. I had to cut the threaded rods to get it all apart. After some work to get the boards realigned and the top flat I reassembled the top as it had originally been made except I added two sets of Bellville washers on each side so that the top could expand/contract with the seasons. More than 10 years later it's doing fine, even after being shipped from NY to FL.

    John

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Michiana
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    I did something similar. My benchtop is made from two salvaged maple worktops, each 1 3/4 thick. The worktops had been exposed to moisture and the glue joints were letting go. I sawed along the failing glue lines with a thin kerf rip blade and glued it all back together. Afterwords I sandwiched the two together and bolted a maple apron around the perimeter. It's held up well for 12 years so far.

    A cautionary note......

    My worktops had embedded lengths of threaded rod that were apparently used during glue up in lieu of clamps. The plugs that hid the holes in the sides were invisible. My rip saw had a bit of a tough time cutting through the steel . Thankfully I noticed on the first cut and removed the rods prior to further cutting. I was impressed how well the carbide teeth held up. That blade got retired. Thankfully it was a cheap Borg blade so the lesson wasn't too costly.

    4104026708_22ff17af2d_k.jpg
    Sharp solves all manner of problems.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    Northern MN
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    I would absolutely not cut this down and reglue it. It takes big equipment as others have said, it'll waste wood, parts may spring on you, and you'll have to redo your vises.

    As far as what I would recommend -- that depends on what the basis for your dissatisfaction is, and I'm not clear on that -- appearance or function?

    Personally, my focus is on function, and if that's your concern, this is no big deal, fill the gaps with epoxy, plane it flat and you're done. In case you're not aware, epoxy is an important component of your glue arsenal because it is one of the few WW glues that has gap filling strength, meaning that you can fill an open gap with it and get a structural bond. It's not perfect because you still have to have a surface epoxy can bond to, but a opened glue joint probably will. So you don't have to get the joint to close, you just have to fill it.

    If it's appearance that's bothering you, then the fact that you're unhappy means you should do something. But do not rip it apart and rebuild the benchtop, not worth it even for appearance. I'd suggest a lower key repair along the lines of Derek's fix but less ambitious (and easier). Rout a 1/4" or 1/2" groove down the length of the seam, maybe 1/4 deep, and glue back in a strip of wood, complimenting or contrasting, as is your preference. If you want to combine this with structural work, you can fill the seam underneath the routed groove. In fact, you could take a circular saw and kerf the seam under the groove a little deeper and pour epoxy in that before capping it.

    You could make it like a teak and holly sole in a sailboat (well, maybe the reverse of it)!



    If you want to make this look like it's more by design than repair, change the vice chop to the same wood as you used for the stringing.

    If you want to tidy up the ends, kerf the seams with a saw and glue in a thin spline with the same grain orientation. Do this before doing the top.

    If the end grain bothers you, then cover it. But don't mess around with a true breadboard end -- it won't be strong enough to keep something this thick straight if it doesn't want to be. Just make a cosmetic cover. Maybe fold in the planing stop idea.

    My $0.02,

    Dave

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    central tx
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    If it were me I'd rip it down and start over. You know you want dovetailed end caps

    If I were to do this: I'd get it off the legs and then use a circular saw on the floor on one face and then flip it over and finish it. Just getting it split in half will cut the weight....in half. Then its progressively easier to deal with and manageable on a band saw with roller supports and a helper. And a brand new blade.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by John K Jordan View Post
    Someone gave me a section of bowling alley about 6' long that made a good temporary work bench. Very hard wood, tough, perfectly flat. I set it on top of a old kitchen cabinet base. Still using it 20 years later as a table to hold my incubator and hatcher. A google search of bowling alley sections for sale gave me a bunch of hits.
    Just be aware that bowling alley chunks often are filled with metal nails between the strips due to how many are assembled...that can affect the ability to bore holes and cut them up so they are probably best for auxiliary surfaces that can be left as-is.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #29
    My first post and everyone that reads this will be scratching their heads. What about using a waterjet to cut it? Years ago, I had some stainless work done by a local shop, while I was there, they showed me some of the wooden signs they’ve cut with one of their machines pretty impressive, kerf was less than 1/16 of a inch. Since it’s a big CNC you’ll have straight cuts. I’m sure if there is any rods inside 60,000psi of abrasive water would cut through it pretty fast. Find a local shop and give them a call.
    Just another idea.

    Eric

  15. #30
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    Mar 2014
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    I want to see the water jet in action on this top!

    My take is to fill the joints and use the bench.
    If in a year and a day if you hate how it looks you can then rip it apart, you won’t have lost anything in the waiting.

    I sometime dilute slow setting epoxy with alcohol to get it to run into small cracks.
    When I want an easier time of it I use SculpWood Paste.
    It has about a 20 minute working time, squished into cracks easily, and sands easily.
    It can be tinted with dye or powder too, but you probably don’t need to do so.

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