Help me decide on a table saw

[John Terefenko]

While I'm also not a fan-boi of SawStop's inventor, the company is now owned by Festool's parent company.

So that means companies like Bosch who had a better breaking system than his can now put theirs into play or does he still own that patent and control it. That what it is all about. You say it is better made. Have you compared side by side or just word of mouth like all these reviews are done. Festool makes some great tools but come with extreme $$$$ tags and I am sure their tablesaw will be no exception. So you will not convince me so do not try. If you love the saw then buy it by all means. Not my money so have fun and enjoy it. Can not take it with you.

[Stan Calow]

Just my opinion as a hobbyist. Looking at your list of projects, there's nothing that a good contractor saw wont do. Saying a hobbyist needs a cabinet saw for the infrequent use you're likely to have, is like saying dont buy a truck unless its a loaded Ford F-350, when a Ranger will do. I have the Sawstop contractor and it does everything I need, is good quality, and has the safety features. I would recommend you get the mobile base and upgraded fence, however, which makes it more expensive. Hobbyists have different value criteria than a pro. The cost difference to upgrade to a contractor saw would pay for some of those other tools you will need.

[glenn bradley]

Looks like we scared Scott off. This is always a difficult subject to get through.

[Jim Becker]

So that means companies like Bosch who had a better breaking system than his can now put theirs into play or does he still own that patent and control it. That what it is all about. You say it is better made. Have you compared side by side or just word of mouth like all these reviews are done. Festool makes some great tools but come with extreme $$$$ tags and I am sure their tablesaw will be no exception. So you will not convince me so do not try. If you love the saw then buy it by all means. Not my money so have fun and enjoy it. Can not take it with you.

1) I don't know the status of the patents, but I suspect that the IP passed with the sale of the company
2) I've never said that Sawstop was better made. I don't own one and only ever even seen one up close and personal. Others say they are well made and I'm fine with that assessment since it seems to be very consistent across many owners. I own and use a sliding table saw and wouldn't go back to a cabinet saw anyway.
3) Buy what you feel has the right value for you. I personally am not trying to convince you of anything. I was merely pointing out the fact of the change of ownership and I'm not sure where you got all the rest from...

[Frank Pratt]

You say it is better made. Have you compared side by side or just word of mouth like all these reviews are done.

I looked at every table saw brand that was for sale in the city when I was shopping. The only conventional North American type table saws that could compare quality wise were the Powermatic PM1000 & PM2000 with the PCS sitting somewhere between the 1000 & 2000. The Hammer & Felder sliders were very nice too, but not directly comparable.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a SawStop PCS with 36 inch rip fence and 1.75hp motor. I looked at the 30 inch but it is not nearly as nice as the 36. I also still have the end of the middle finger of my left hand due to using this saw instead of the cheaper table saws I used without incident for over 40 years. I got stupid and the SawStop turned it into a six stitch + broken bone incident instead of an amputation. That is my opinion and also the opinion of the Surgeon who treated me. He sees a lot of table saw injuries from what the nurses said.

I agree with Jim B about SawStop's inventors sales strategy and I disagree with their sales statement that their saws have not been involved in serious injuries. In my mind, six stitches, a trip to urgent care, a splint for a couple weeks and permanent set of scars is serious. I guess it is not to them. But I still have my finger and am using it right now to type this due to the brake.

I use wood three inches thick when that is what the design calls for. I discovered after buying the SawStop 1.75hp that it will not rip even softwood well at that thickness without a thin kerf blade. I have used full kerf previously on other 110V saws. But with a thin kerf ripping blade, it does well. Normal feed rate, no issues. If you do not mind changing blades occasionally I think it is fully adequate. But you need a 20A 110V circuit. I had it plugged into a power strip with 15A breaker for awhile and it would trip that regularly. On a 20A circuit no issues.

Dust control with a "2hp" HF DC is pretty good. Minimal dust in the cabinet with the hose connection on the back hooked to the DC. I tried it with a shop vac and it did not work well at all. It did not move enough air and the cabinet has all kinds of holes in it.

For bedroom furniture (I realize it was not your question) I recommend WoodSmith's cherry bedroom set with a queen sized bed. Both my married kids and I sleep on one. I modify the plan to a platform bed but the design is good, the bed is attractive we believe, and it is pretty easy to make. My son and his wife's is oak, mine and my daughter and son-in-law have cherry. I find the nightstand too short (seems to be my opinion of a lot of WoodSmith plans) but I just added a drawer to mine and like the nightstands. My son and daughter in law have an expanded dresser, about double the size of the WoodSmith, and my daughter and son-in-law have one built to the plans. It is too small in our opinion. Long way of saying I like the design and the ease of built but changed some things. I still need to build my dresser.

I recommend stretching the budget, if necessary, to get a SawStop. It does not prevent serious injuries IMHO but it seems to prevent amputations. It is also a sturdy, solid, pleasure to use table saw. Feels like a Unisaw or Powermatic or other high end saw. If you need to, I would get the contractor saw to save money. I haven't used it but it looks like a good contractor saw. They also make a portable but I haven't even looked at it.

Good luck.

[Mike Henderson]

So that means companies like Bosch who had a better braking system than his can now put theirs into play or does he still own that patent and control it. That what it is all about. You say it is better made. Have you compared side by side or just word of mouth like all these reviews are done. Festool makes some great tools but come with extreme $$$$ tags and I am sure their tablesaw will be no exception. So you will not convince me so do not try. If you love the saw then buy it by all means. Not my money so have fun and enjoy it. Can not take it with you.

It's almost inconceivable that Festool would purchase SawStop and not get the patents. Festool's ownership of the patents does not mean that Bosch (and others) can infringe the patents. I'm sure that Festool would defend the patents just as strongly as Gass.

Eventually the patents will expire and then others can use the technology on their products. I don't know the expiration date of the last patent but I would expect there's not too many years left.

Mike

[Alex Zeller]

My guess is in another 3 to 5 years most saws will have similar brakes to the SS.

When I read the op post I read "money is a little tight to spend on woodworking equipment but I really want to have a shop to make my own stuff". If so I can understand this. My advice is to look at woodworking equipment auctions. There's plenty in PA so finding a used cabinet saw (PM66 or Unisaw) for a good price shouldn't be too hard. Then, as money permits, you can upgrade. Just avoid 3 phase equipment unless you can understand what's involved with getting it to work on the power in your house.

[mike stenson]

My guess is in another 3 to 5 years most saws will have similar brakes to the SS.

.

The first patent expires in 2021, but can possibly extended to 2024. There are, however, over 100 associated patents. So, it may take a while..

Oh and yes, the IP was really the only reason to buy sawstop.

[Scott Winter]

Looks like we scared Scott off. This is always a difficult subject to get through.

Definitely not scared off!!

A little change between when I posted until right now. My other (better) half put the kibosh on the DW735X for now since we have a baby on the way in two months. Said I can still get it, but since we don't NEED it right now that it would be better to wait (even though we're going to lose out on the $150 off promo). I can just use dimensional lumber for now until then. I'm still getting a table saw though since I convinced her that nothing could get done without it (ok maybe I stretched that a little bit.... )

I'm taking in all the advice I've received in this thread, and going to really weigh out the pro/con of each saw. Right now here is what I have it narrowed down to:

Rigid R4520 (Low end)
Laguna F2 (Middle)
Saw Stop 36" Contractor (High end)
Saw Stop 36" PCS (Ultra high end)

I'm pretty torn between the Laguna and SS Contractor. I don't think I will get another $500+ in benefit going up to the SS PCS for my needs. I may just say screw it and get a Dewalt job site saw, and a track saw instead.

[Rod Wolfy]

I've had a Bosch Jobsite saw. It was underpowered for 8/4, even with a thin kerf blade. The universal motor is not nearly as strong as an actual 1.75 on a "contractor's" type saw with the belt hanging out the back. I'd suggest a used CL saw before a jobsite saw.
happens.
However, as Jim Dwight posted, it's hard to argue a SS vs. something else when a true accident I actually was REALLY against SawStops/Gass's politics myself and refused to get one for years. However, no matter how safe I believe I've been and despite whatever my politics have been, I've STILL had car accidents and table saw accidents.

My friend lost the first digit of his left index finger last year, when he turned to look at what his dog was barking at, after he had turned off his table saw... He didn't get the finger back at it cost north of $3k at the hospital.

[Andy D Jones]

While I'm also not a fan-boi of SawStop's inventor, the company is now owned by Festool's parent company.

Sorry, that does not absolve Festool or their parent company.

Festool's parent company knew what Sawstop did, and ultimately rewarded them for it; therefore, they they can suffer for it just as well.

-- Andy - Arlington TX

[james manutes]

I don't have any knowledge of Saw Stop's "origins" , so can someone explain the issue to me about the guy ? Don't want to argue with anyone , just curious .

[Jim Becker]

I don't have any knowledge of Saw Stop's "origins" , so can someone explain the issue to me about the guy ? Don't want to argue with anyone , just curious .

There are bunches of threads on this here and in probably every other woodworking forum out there.

[Robert London]

If you’re in the 1200-1300 range, there are a lot of saws to pick from. Not sure if people’s advice to double your budget and buy a saw stop is helping you. I was thinking of getting a contractor SS, but upgraded to the 1 3/4 cabinet SS and had it almost a year. Nice saw and I enjoy using it. But $2500 is still a lot of money if you’re wanting to spend 1/2 that. There’s no perfect saw in that range of 1200 - 1400 range and going to have to make some concessions. I would consider a hybrid saw and buy the best fence I could afford.