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Thread: Help me identify this tool?

  1. 06-13-2020, 12:41 AM #1
    Bob Jones 5443
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    Help me identify this tool?

    I'm studying David Charlesworth's new The Through Dovetail DVD, and I've noticed a small precision square he uses to check squareness of tails with the face. Here are some unauthorized screen shots for reference (sorry, David):

    DLC dovetail square.jpg DLC square 2.jpg

    Anyone have experience with this tool? Where can I get one?

    Sterling Toolworks makes something similar, and maybe its rule's tiny end is even smaller than the one above, but I think the overall tool might be larger in the hand:

    Sterling dovetail square.jpg

    In the meantime, I've made a little one out of cherry that might end up serving me well enough, but I want to look at all the possible sources because I only want to do this once.

    Thanks for the help.
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  3. 06-13-2020, 1:19 AM #2
    Ray Newman
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    Starrett 14D is similar: https://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/14D

    Highland Woodworking has a Vesper square: https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/...le-square.aspx
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  4. 06-13-2020, 2:13 AM #3
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    Jim Koepke
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    My first solution for a square to check dovetails was to make one:

    Dovetail Square & Saw Handle.jpg

    It was nice having a square to check joinery. After a while one was purchased from Lee Valley > https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop...-double-square

    It is very useful. My shop made square was given to my grandson.

    jtk
    Last edited by Jim Koepke; 06-13-2020 at 2:15 AM.
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  5. 06-13-2020, 2:24 AM #4
    David Bassett
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Jones 5443 View Post
    ... Anyone have experience with this tool? Where can I get one? ...
    I'm not sure, it looks like the Lee Valley Small Double Square to me.

    There are several small squares available. The Sterling, or the Sterling blade in a 2nd PEC double square body, was the first I was aware of. I think Chris Vesper makes a very nice one. I'm not sure who originated the idea or if anyone even claims to be first.

    I also notice LV has a Starrett Double square, but without the skinny blade, that has a similar body to the one in your Charlesworth's photos. Maybe Starrett has different blades. (Oops, Ray pointed this one out.)
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  6. 06-13-2020, 2:22 PM #5
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    Rafael Herrera
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    At first I thought it was a machinist vernier, like one I have, but it looks like it's a skinny square.
    I got mine for the same reasons as in the book. It was made by J. P. Ehrmann, Watervliet, NY. I wasn't able to find much about this maker.
    20200613_140802.jpg
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  7. 06-13-2020, 2:57 PM #6
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    James Pallas
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    Starrett makes one. I think they call it a die makers square. It actually will adjust to small angles. Like anything they make you have to reach deep into your pocket. I have one from LV. It has two blades one small like the one pictured.
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  8. 06-13-2020, 4:14 PM #7
    Frederick Skelly
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    Its a sterling dovetail square.
    I bought the LV version and made my own.
    Good tool to have.
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  9. 06-13-2020, 4:46 PM #8
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    Jim Koepke
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frederick Skelly View Post
    Its a sterling dovetail square.
    I bought the LV version and made my own.
    Good tool to have.
    Look at the images again. The first two show a different square than the third image, which is a Sterling dovetail square.

    jtk
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  10. 06-13-2020, 5:28 PM #9
    Bob Jones 5443
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    Thanks, all.

    The Starrett 14D looks similar to David's. I think he's using the 14MD. It's $162, and you have to buy three blades.

    The Vesper looks very nice. $180. Going in the wrong direction.

    before I started this post, I ordered the Lee Valley Small Double Square for $50, but put it on hold when I noticed the Sterling Dovetail Square ($60), which looked like it has a smaller profile to the blade, and/or a longer narrow end, and maybe a nicer fit and finish. I wish they provided the various dimensions of the small blade. I can estimate from the photos that the LV looks about 3/32" thick, but LV says it's 3/32", and there's no way to tell with the Sterling.

    I think my choice is coming down to either the LV or the Sterling.

    James, Jim, Frederick, if you have your LV tool handy, would you mind sharing these dimensions of the narrow blade with me: thickness, length of narrow end. Also, how would you describe its overall finish?
    Last edited by Bob Jones 5443; 06-13-2020 at 5:40 PM.
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  11. 06-13-2020, 5:31 PM #10
    Frederick Skelly
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Look at the images again. The first two show a different square than the third image, which is a Sterling dovetail square.

    jtk
    Oh heck Jim. You're sure right! I should have read more closely.
    The others look like the LV to me.
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  12. 06-13-2020, 5:45 PM #11
    Tony Zaffuto
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    LV small double square is great, and another to consider is the PEC version. I got my Starrett die-makers square from Patrick Leach, but I honestly do not use it as much as the LV.
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  13. 06-13-2020, 5:54 PM #12
    Frederick Skelly
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    Bob,
    My LV blade measures 2 1/2" long (total), 3/16" wide and 1/16" thick (checked it twice). The narrow "dovetail part" is 1/2" long. I think the fit/finish is good.

    Fred
    Last edited by Frederick Skelly; 06-13-2020 at 6:05 PM.
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  14. 06-13-2020, 6:24 PM #13
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    Jim Koepke
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    What Frederick said but in pictures:

    Lee Valley Dovetail Square.jpg

    Fat End of Small Blade.jpg

    Thickness of Small Blade.jpg

    While measuring the 1/2" long narrow part of the blade my camera battery gave up. It is 3/32" wide.

    For most of my work the fat end works fine.

    The Lee Valley Dovetail Square seems well finished. In my fat hands it does seem small. It is still a very helpful tool in the shop.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
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  15. 06-13-2020, 7:21 PM #14
    Mike Kreinhop
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    Bob,

    The 14MD comes with three metric blades, but the 14MA comes with the single steel blade. I have both, because I was constantly switching between the large and small blades when making dovetails.
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  16. 06-14-2020, 1:11 AM #15
    Bob Jones 5443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    What Frederick said but in pictures:

    Lee Valley Dovetail Square.jpg

    Fat End of Small Blade.jpg

    Thickness of Small Blade.jpg

    While measuring the 1/2" long narrow part of the blade my camera battery gave up. It is 3/32" wide.

    For most of my work the fat end works fine.

    The Lee Valley Dovetail Square seems well finished. In my fat hands it does seem small. It is still a very helpful tool in the shop.

    jtk
    Gentlemen, thank you for the information. Jim, you really came through the the data. Frederick, too: 1/16" thick sounds great. I wish LV would give this on their site.

    I've reinstated my on-hold order for it with Lee Valley. Thanks again!
    Bob
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