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Thread: Stil rasping a bit

  1. #1
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    Stil rasping a bit

    Spent some time in the shop working on saws among all the house duties one must do.
    Couple of large tenon saws. 16" and 20" 11 and 9 ppi respectively. Then a Sculpted tenon fashioned after the Regan but with a lambs tongue. 12 ppi still to be finish filed. 15, 16, 17, and 18ppi.
    20200530_184116.jpg
    20200530_181154.jpg
    Some dovetails not filed yet.
    20200530_234004.jpg32*, 38* and 45* hang angles.

  2. #2
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    Skillfully shaped, Ron.

    Would you like to explain the different hang angles?

    Also, the apparent grain direction of the lower most saw handle is interesting. Comment?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  3. #3
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    Such beautiful work, Ron!

  4. #4
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    Wow! Stunning. Itís the first time Iíve noticed the plate heel curve detail...very nice design.

  5. #5
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    Ron,

    +1 on beautiful work. Absolutely beautiful.

    Regards,

    Stew

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stew Denton View Post
    Ron,

    +1 on beautiful work. Absolutely beautiful.

    Regards,

    Stew
    Agreed. Absolutely gorgeous work.

  7. #7
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    Yes, gorgeous is really not enough to describe these saws.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  8. #8
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    Outstanding Ron. I truly wish I could make a test cut with one of your saws someday. They just have to cut as well as they look.
    David

  9. #9
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    Function, meet art.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Skillfully shaped, Ron.

    Would you like to explain the different hang angles?

    Also, the apparent grain direction of the lower most saw handle is interesting. Comment?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Good afternoon Derek.

    The hang angles, (from lowest to the top) are two at 32*, ( less downward force ), the next two are 38* ( a little more natural downward force ) and the last two are at 45* hang. At this hang angle the same amount of force, roughly, is applied both downward and forward. ( theoretically ) A more aggressive saw, requiring a lighter touch. 16ppi works well on those saws. I seem to bounce between the 38 and the 45. If you have a tall bench or are using a moxon vise, you may prefer the 32* hang. While cutting half blinds, perhaps the 45* hang. Keep in mind this assumes the same pitch rake and fleam as well as plate thickness. Change the tooth geometry or cant the plate and all things change within limits. It's just a question of what you prefer.
    As far as the grain direction of the tiger maple saw, ( more of a flame maple ) the tote was treated with BLO to bring out the flame more. It is a bit deceiving at first glance, but a closer look would show the actual grain direction. From the top horn to the cheek basically.
    An open tote in particular should have the grain in this direction or it could be more prone to snapping ( novice user or dropped ), much like a plane tote. If you add a lambs tongue it helps to absorb the force and keep the grip from snapping. I personally just think it is a classier look, but both are made from the same pattern. I had made a lot of subtle changes in my totes/ saws back in 2015/16 prior to things going south for a while.
    An easy subject to expand on like a tree with many branches. A lot of if, then, buts. Hopefully this makes a little bit of sense. I will try to post two identical saws with different hang angles a little later. Probably tomorrow.
    Take care.
    Last edited by Ron Bontz; 05-31-2020 at 6:18 PM. Reason: omission

  11. #11
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    A couple better pics. The first Tiger Maple. 32* hangIMG_4373.JPG
    The second: Mahogany ...38* hang IMG_4370.JPGNote the lamb's tongue is more relaxed.
    Third is a quarter cut sycamore open tote at 45* hang. IMG_4365.JPG
    Dave;
    Next time you are in St. Louis area, feel free to call/ stop by.

  12. #12
    I agree on the plate heel curve detail, first time I've seen that. love it!

  13. #13
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    Ron, not much I can add your saws are absolutely gorgeous, and I know from experience work as beautifully as they look!

    Given all the saws you have to choose from, I wonder how you decide which configuration (plate thickness, rake angle, Fleam angle etc.) works best for a given task? For example, what would you choose/recommend for ripping the cheeks of a 2" long tennon in 8/4 oak versus may be sawing dovetails in 4/4 quarter mahogany?

    Thanks for sharing pictures and thoughts about your gorgeous saws!

    Cheers, Mike

  14. #14
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    Hi Mke.
    Definitely two extremes there. The dovetail being more of a finesse saw. Just so happens I have some Honduran mahogany and another mahogany as well, ( saw ) in the shop. I have filed a 0.020" plate to 18ppi and it works just fine in mahogany and could be handy if you are one of those that cut to the line. Smooth finish. Unless you are a production pro where time is critical. But a 15/16 ppi works also. Most of my personal dovetail saws, ( yes I have a few ), are filed 15 or 16 ppi. in 3 different hang angles. Well, just because, but I have a couple filed 17 and 18 ppi. My gent saw with the 0.015" plates are 18 to 20 ppi. Having a longer 12" plate aids in the depth of cut per stroke also. Helps make up for the fine smaller teeth. I think it is just a matter of "what works best for you" preference. Mahogany just seems to work easily anyway and it sure is pretty with figured maple. Just a little soft at times. Yesterday I filed a 0.020" plate at 16ppi and it did just fine in yellow pine. Oak is ok too. Just a little slower. 0.018/ 0.020" is a good thickness for dovetail saws IMHO. I usually test my saws in hardwoods like maple and oak, but I am running short on scrap for testing cuts at the moment. I just filed a 0.015" at 16ppi today. ( A saw for making saws ) 2.25" is a little tall for that thin of a plate. Requires a lighter touch or the plate can easily deflect. 16, 17, and 18ppi are nice for the thinner woods 3/8ths etc.. A beginning user would benefit from the rigidity of the 0.020" plate vs the thinner 0.015". Easier to control/ guide.
    As far as a 2" tenon in 8/4 oak, keep in mind those thin plates do not dissipate heat well and can deform if not careful. I don't really see any reason to use anything finer than a 0.025" plate filed at 11ppi, unless you are going to see it exposed. Even then a scraper or rasp can work wonders. I tested a 16" tenon filed 11ppi with 0.006 set per side yesterday in 1.5" yellow pine and walnut then switched to the 20" filed at 9ppi. Obviously it was much faster but a little more coarse. It also had approx. 0.006 set per side. There is a lot to be said for a 0.032" thick plate filed at 9ppi when it comes to ripping through oak. The rigidity makes it a real work horse. Even a 16 inch tenon at 0.032" x 10 or 11ppi is good. No fleam, of course. I don't like to work hard so the rake is usually 6 to 8* on tenon saws. One nice thing about the smaller 16, 17, and 18ppi is that they do pretty well for cross cutting. Most tenon shoulders are not very deep anyway. I try to remember they were cutting nice dovetails with 0.025" and thicker plates hundreds of years ago, and look at the master pieces they built. Ultimately every one has their own opinions. That's mine for the most part. " That's all I got to say about that"

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