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Thread: Installing ductwork for dust collector? Pics

  1. #16
    Join Date
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    True dat. But audience :: I needed to use some term to delineate difference in flow. (Not sure how many here speak Reynolds).
    You're right, context is important. I didn't mean to sound like a 240 vs 220 pedant.

    I sometimes call it "undisturbed" or "reasonably uniform".

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Wilson View Post
    The term you are looking for is “fully developed” meaning that the effects of elbows on the velocity profile have decayed away. Typical straight pipe distances of 5 to 10 pipe diameters are needed for fully developed turbulent flow.
    Well, at dust collection velocities you need more than 10D to get fully developed flow. But 5D to 10D from a disturbance is usually good enough for both testing and not too much system effect (interaction between closely spaced components).

    There's a difference between what's agreed upon for reproducible testing and what's required for actual operation. Per AMCA a 10D test pipe is used for testing DC type fans. That convention has been extended to the testing of cyclone-fronted hobbyist dust collector systems. That means you should be able to reproduce a manufacturer's test data if you're careful. It doesn't mean the system quits working if you only have 1D, just that you get different (usually not as good) results.

    So, a 90 close to the input of a cyclone will almost certainly increase the loss coefficients of both the 90 and the cyclone (system effect). It will also change the collection efficiency vs particle size curve, probably spreading the transition region somewhat. I think the overall impact of that will be a lot less than a reduction in airflow or a collection bin leak. That's an opinion, I've not seen any actual data on what inlet disturbances do to collection efficiency.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  2. #17
    Tom - In answer to your question, my longer range plans are to build a separate mechanical room or shed as you put it for the DC and air compressor. But for now, to get the system up and running, I decided to install the DC where it is shown. It is elevated as high as it will go without hitting the mezzanine floor joists. BTW, your DC installation and shop for that matter look great! I can only hope that mine looks half as good as yours and Ken's when done. After looking closely at your setup I decided to make another change of plans and give up on the idea of angling the wye branches downward. The way you and Ken installed yours looks like it should. Is it possible to post some additional pics of your setup showing duct hangers, vertical supports, various machine connections, etc?

  3. #18
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    Yea, a pesky ceiling can get in the way sometimes. LOL I did stick the motor of my Oneida system up between the joists which gave me the headroom I needed to easily fit a 55 gallon bin under it with an 8' ceiling level. (bottom of joists)
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #19
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    Sep 2013
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    El Dorado Hills, CA, USA
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    You're probably way ahead of me, but a pic just for interest. I waited for the final vertical positioning of my dust collector until I had the ducting and angles set so that I could run a 45 up toward the ceiling, and a single 90 to make the turn at the ceiling. It saved a couple of turns over the version designed by Oneida. My overall system is much smaller than yours, but the 7" main duct is the full length along the ceiling, I notice yours drops to 6" (not saying that's an issue, I don't know enough to suggest that). My drops from the ceiling are 45 wyes followed by a 45 turn to go vertical, except the very last one which is a 90 straight down.

    IMG_1131.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #20
    Nice work Dave! I really wanted the clamp together duct and fittings in your install but couldn't justify the shipping expense. I do have one drop off a wye the same as yours that will be for the lathe. I was originally planning to run all of the mains 6" but the purchase of the used Oneida DC with an 8" inlet prompted me to increase the run along one wall to 8". It seems logical to make the transition to 6" at a wye.

  6. #21
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    Thanks Steve! Yes, the words "nordfab" and "justify" have never been in the same sentence together

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mills View Post
    Thanks Steve! Yes, the words "nordfab" and "justify" have never been in the same sentence together
    Actually, the price for the ducts and fittings seemed reasonable. What killed it for me was the shipping which was more than what I'm paying for the current selection of materials alone.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Mathews View Post
    I was originally planning to run all of the mains 6" but the purchase of the used Oneida DC with an 8" inlet prompted me to increase the run along one wall to 8". It seems logical to make the transition to 6" at a wye.
    Similar here. My 2hp Oneida system has a 7" inlet, so I run 7" to the first major wye and transition to 6" there to match the original duct work I installed for an even earlier version of the Oneida cyclone back in 2000. That was the logical transition point and it's worked out well. Single worker/single machine systems don't need to step down, but back when I was designing my collection network, it was still the way things were being recommended by the vendor. Should I ever relocate the shop due to downsizing, etc., I'll probably simplify things and stick with a 6" main past that first wye with all my drops at 5" which accommodates any tool I have in any location...my slider and J/P have 120mm ports (~5"). I like my 5" floor sweeps the best...they are more efficient than the 4" floor sweep for sure. Other tools, I'd reduce at the specific tool.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #24
    Most of the materials won't be delivered until next week at the earliest but I'm already looking at making changes. Instead of installing the 6" line above the wall ties I may move it below. I thought not to do that earlier because of conflicts with light fixtures and at least one air cleaner. But after looking at it again I may have enough clearance with the light fixtures and the air cleaner(s) can easily be moved. By lowering the duct I may be able to eliminate one fitting. It may also work out better with a mezzanine extension planned. It's been great receiving all of the suggestions and ideas here. I hate to think how many other changes would have to be made without the help.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Elizabethtown, PA
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    I feel the Norfab stuff isn't reasonable compared to spiral fittings. Norfab is great for someone that wants to install duct fast or change it a round (it's like legos). I'm a journeyman sheet metal mechanic, but my current job doesn't allow me to do home projects there so I more than likely I'll run PCV. I also don't like that all the common available 90s are 1.5 x center-line, I would make them 2x for a more gradual bend. Some systems I've installed have been as much as 4x center-line for foundries.

  11. #26
    What are some good options for cutting spiral pipe?

  12. #27
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Costa View Post
    What are some good options for cutting spiral pipe?
    Drill a hole at the cut line and use a jigsaw with a metal cutting blade to run around the line. Putting blue tape on the "keep side" of the line will help guide you. A quick pass with a file will clean up any sharpness.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  13. #28
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Highland MI
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    IMG_7486 resize.jpg"Never use flex hose". My setup was so oddball, I had no choice. I used the aluminum flexible duct off the shelf in 7" size from HD. Smooth bends unlike a series of cobbled up twisted bends using standard multi part twist-to-fit 90 or 45 degree bends. Even then I had to use a 45 right at the inlet. Works fine for me. I don't get unusual amounts of dust in my filter. I tap it out every 35 gallons of sawdust and blow it out with a power blower every 3 barrels of chips. As good as 6 feet of straight pipe into the inlet? Of course not.
    NOW you tell me...

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    52,856
    Ole, the aluminum stuff you used is a little smoother inside than the typical flex hose used for connection to machines. That said, I'm surprised it's not getting crushed by your system unless you found a much heavier product than I've seen in the store!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Mathews View Post
    Tom - In answer to your question, my longer range plans are to build a separate mechanical room or shed as you put it for the DC and air compressor. But for now, to get the system up and running, I decided to install the DC where it is shown. It is elevated as high as it will go without hitting the mezzanine floor joists. BTW, your DC installation and shop for that matter look great! I can only hope that mine looks half as good as yours and Ken's when done. After looking closely at your setup I decided to make another change of plans and give up on the idea of angling the wye branches downward. The way you and Ken installed yours looks like it should. Is it possible to post some additional pics of your setup showing duct hangers, vertical supports, various machine connections, etc?
    Steve I'll post what I think you are asking for. If you want me to zoom in on a machine connection or some other detail let me know and I'll gab another photo. As for hangers I used two types. For the main 8" trunk I went with a more rigid two piece clamping hanger with 2 lengths of all thread which I connected to Sammys 3/8-16 x 2 Threaded Rod Hanger for Wood that I screwed into the ceiling joists through a washer. For all my 6" pipe I used a Tear Drop Pipe Hanger. one at least every 10 feet. for vertical drops I made clamping wall mounts using one of part of a 6" two piece clamping hanger and made a BB piece to mount to the wall.

    Sammys.jpg WIN_20190929_17_29_37_Pro.jpg WIN_20191015_15_48_51_Pro.jpg WIN_20191027_17_44_37_Pro.jpg

    Here are various views of the full installation inside the shop.

    DSC03183.jpg DSC03184.jpg DSC03185.jpg DSC03190.jpg

    Well I reached the 8 picture limit. Let me know if there is some detail I missed that you are interested in.

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