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Thread: Oneida dust collector air tight to bin?

  1. #1

    Oneida dust collector air tight to bin?

    I just finished installing my new to me Oneida 3hp dust collector sans the ductwork. The manual states that the connections to the dust bin including the bin itself be air tight otherwise the motor may overheat. This makes no sense to me. Can anyone provide the reasoning for this?

  2. #2
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    If there is too much airflow the motor will overload, but that would have to be a huge amount of leakage. If the bin connection isn't airtight there will be lot of dust the gets past the cyclone though.

  3. #3
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    Contrary to "initial logical thought, motor heat is raised when there is no ductwork which effectively becomes the case if the bin isn't attached or is leaking appreciably. That makes the motor work harder. The motor is under the least load when all the blast gates are closed, believe it or not.

    It's important to note that even a tiny leak will cause blow-by into the filters. The bin and it's connection at the bottom of the cyclone must be absolutely
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #4
    Illogical to say the least but I'll heed the advice and do my best to seal all connections. The dust bin (55 gal. drum) included with my DC has small rust holes in the bottom so I'll find another one to replace it. There was a lot of silicone caulking residue around most of the joints on the DC. I now understand why it is there. I plan to order the duct and fittings tomorrow for that part of the installation. I decided to go with spiral ducts and standard fittings found locally. The other options were tempting but I couldn't get past the shipping costs. I also plan to use the ubiquitous cast aluminum blast gates. Are some better than others?

  5. #5
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    I use the powertec cast aluminum gates from the Big A and they are just OK. The slide is a bit flimsy, especially the side with the hole, so it is easily bent if you bump against it. But just as easily straightened out. The hubs on them are kind of short if you try to connect hose directly to them, but it can be done. I usually use a short length of SDR pipe over the hub, and then another short length of pipe with a slit removed to allow them to slip into the piece on the hubs. Then the hose slips over the second piece. The hubs are a snug fit into SDR pipe; don't know how well they would fit spiral pipe.

    There are probably better blast gates out there, but the common ones all look to be identical.
    --I had my patience tested. I'm negative--

  6. #6
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    Steve,

    Here's the way a cyclone DC works. Air with dust particles gets pulled into the intake ducts. It then gets directed down into the funnel shaped cyclone chamber which has the barrel attached via ducting at the bottom. It goes down, reduces speed as it gets redirected up a pipe in the center of funnel shaped chamber to the blades of the fan out into the duct leading to and through the filter where it once again reenters the shop air. When it loses speed in the chamber to go up the center pipe, the air doesn't have enough velocity to overcome the effects of gravity and gravity causes the dust to settle into the barrel. If there are any air leaks in the barrel or it's connecting plumbing to the funnel shaped chamber, the incoming air from the leak will provide lift necessary to carry some dust up through the center pipe through the impeller into the filter. Eventually it will reduce the air flow through the filter by clogging it.

    Running the DC with the barrel disconnected and nothing hooked to the input ducts would maximize the air flow causing the motor to work it's hardest.

    When you get your system hooked up, you will find that when you close a gate will cause the sound to change. That's because it's doing less work as it is moving less air.

    We actually had a fellow Creeker, a US Navy Command Master Chief Petty Officer, who built a special wiring harness so he could measure current flow to the DC motor and he measured with a clamp on amp meter the current to the motor. It was greatest with the gates open and least when all gates were shut even though the sound with the gates closed was misleading.

    BTW, I have a 3HP Oneida Super Gorilla. I have been happy with it's performance.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 05-14-2020 at 12:49 PM.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  7. #7
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    You will appreciate getting that bin all sealed up as a great alternative to having to clean out a plugged up filter...which is a thankless task!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    clean out a plugged up filter...which is a thankless task!
    One which sadly some of us are slow to learn how to avoid

  9. #9
    My first thought after reading about the concept of leaks/openings in the DC causing more current flow in the motor was to use an amp meter to prove or disprove it to myself. Looks like I don't have to do that now based on Ken's post.

    As to what Jim mentioned about cleaning out a plugged filter, I've already had the pleasure of working on that task. The previous owner left quite a mess with most of the pleats in the filter completely filled with sawdust. I had to dig out most of the caked layers with a pointed stick followed with compressed air. The Owner's Manual states to spray water on the inside of the pleats for final cleaning. Somehow that doesn't seem right but I'll do it anyway.

    Off to hopefully purchase some ductwork today.

  10. #10
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    The Owner's Manual states to spray water on the inside of the pleats for final cleaning. Somehow that doesn't seem right but I'll do it anyway.

    The clean stream HEPA shop vac filters are some kind of plastic and not paper. They do say you can rinse them off with water. Just no high pressure and do not blow a hole through them. I have read that the cloth filter bags can be washed in the home washing machine when no one is looking. If I tried it I would go to a laundrymat. I think those are still open.
    Bill D
    Bill D

  11. #11
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    Further to Jim's comment that the motor on the DC fan works hardest with no ductwork, I worked in the industrial and utility boiler industry for decades. We installed huge fans think hundreds of horsepower sometimes over 1000HP. standard operating procedure was always to start the fans with all dampers closed to avoid overloading motors. I know it sounds illogical but it's true. Note though that shop vacs need airflow for a different reason. There's enough resistance in the shop vac itself so you can run it without a hose but since the shop vac motor is in the airstream and relies on the airflow for cooling, you can overheat a shop vac motor if you plug the filter. DC motors are outside the airstream and have cooling fins and fans.

  12. #12
    If you use a fiberboard drum, you will know you are sealed up well when you turn it on, it lifts off the ground. Depends how heavy that drum is.

    Also, a cheap trick if you are planning to use bags inside the bin for convenient disposal: Instead of getting the Oneida drum liner, you can use a leaf collector liner (Amzn). It's easy enough to turn it into the liner. Makes emptying the bin a little easier. If you go this route, LMK. There are other things you need to know to get it to work properly.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fitzgerald View Post
    Steve,

    We actually had a fellow Creeker, a US Navy Command Master Chief Petty Officer, who built a special wiring harness so he could measure current flow to the DC motor and he measured with a clamp on amp meter the current to the motor. It was greatest with the gates open and least when all gates were shut even though the sound with the gates closed was misleading.

    BTW, I have a 3HP Oneida Super Gorilla. I have been happy with it's performance.
    There might be a few of us here that use this setup, under $10 (years ago)direct from China (mine on a 2 hp Oneida SDG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGIe...ature=youtu.be If you go to the video you will see it draw 70 amps on startup.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ole Anderson; 05-16-2020 at 9:24 AM.
    NOW you tell me...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole Anderson View Post
    There might be a few of us here that use this setup, under $10 (years ago)direct from China (mine on a 2 hp Oneida SDG): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGIe...ature=youtu.be If you go to the video you will see it draw 70 amps on startup.
    The guy to whom I was referring was doing a one time check to settle a discussion here at the Creek.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  15. #15
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    Sorry about the thread resurrection, but Prashun's last comment caught my attention. I have a 2ho Oneida Super Dust Gorilla, it's never been used, but I bought it about 7 years ago. It's a metal cone.

    Prashun mentioned that you'll know the drum is sealed if it picks up the fiber bin when on. When mine is running it does pick up the bin, but also is bypassing chips out the exhaust. The chips that do go to the bottom of the cone sit in the big hose and don't fall into the bin. Any suggestions of what to look for?

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