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Thread: Climate & Glue

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    SoCal
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    560

    Climate & Glue

    Ruined a glue up a few days ago. I used TB III - weather was 95 with an ambient humidity of 15%. I believe (did not time it) that the glue and tacked and set beyond my ability to move the pieces in about 120 seconds. Was my fault - I simply forgot about the effect of weather on glue having been "spoiled" by a long and wet winter. Had the same issue today. Fortunately I was able to separate the parts because one was end grain.

    After the 1st issue, I promptly ordered some DAP Weldwood but that only gives 5 minutes at 90 and is inconvenient to use. I have some 5 minute epoxy that I might try for little pieces.

    So what do you fellow desert rats use? At what time of day? I would love to read any commentary from anyone on this subject.

    Thanks, Curt

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    During some parts of the year it is too cold to glue here.

    A couple projects were done when it was inconvenient to take things into the house to glue.

    After six years the drawer is still holding without glue > https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?211707 < The bedside stand built at the same time was glued about a month later.

    During hot weather my gluing is either done at the beginning or end of the day.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
    Curt,

    If for indoors (moisture not a problem) use either hot hide glue or liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue). Hot has a very short open time but there are many way to extend it and heat is one of them. Liquid has longer open time, both work well in hot WX.

    ken

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    South Coastal Massachusetts
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    5,718
    Can you shift your builds to include more mechanical joints, and fewer requiring glue?

    For me the "sticking point" is multiple tenons.

    *****


    The formulations using Urea Formaldehyde stay uncured for about 15 minutes.

    I would syill prefer your choice of Titebond III, in smaller bottles - stored in the fridge. It's excellent and easy to clean up - without odd smells.

    I would anticipate more, hotter days ahead.

    https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/southwest

  5. #5
    The high heat might actually be an advantage if you use hide glue (hot or liquid). It should like the heat and shouldn't complain about the humidity. If it does complain about the humidity just add a smidgen more water (if using hot hide glue)!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Okotoks AB
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    1,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Putnam View Post
    I have some 5 minute epoxy that I might try for little pieces.
    Don't do that unless it's a very simple glue up. Even at comfortable room temperature it can set up sooner than that. Get some slow setting epoxy that has a 60 minute set time. That'll give you lots of time to get everything in place & clamped. A hint with epoxy; mix it thoroughly in a cup & then pour it into a shallow pan. If left in the cup, it can generate enough heat to set off in a big hurry. Spread out thin in a pan keeps it cooler.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    SoCal
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    Thank you Gentlemen

    The big piece that I ruined was to be the first piece of a glue lam - specifically a leg vise chop. It was just as well, I'd planned on using clamps to settle some irregularities - wasn't going to work. I know because I tried it anyway. Yesterday's item was a small corbel for an outdoor shelf - so hide glue would not have worked well.

    My shop faces east which means that it heats up well before I am coherent in the morning. Looks to be evenings, at best, for PVA glues. Epoxy, urea or hide otherwise. Epoxy is just so spendy when gluing up a benchtop from 4/4 rough stock.

  8. #8
    Try Titebond Extend. Or dilute what you have with water by 5%, that will buy some time.

    Frequently Asked Questions
    Can Titebond Wood Glues be thinned?


    Most of our water-based wood glues can be thinned with water up to 5% by weight or by volume. Adding more than 5% water to our glues will decrease the bond strength.

  9. #9
    Lot of guys don't like Titebond 3. The Weldwood cures faster with high temps. But I haven't seen the quick set you
    mentioned. You can use the Weldwood a little thinner than what the directions say. For "flat gluing " ( big areas) I was
    taught to mix it to where glue would imediately drip from lifted stir stick ,NOT stream. Then let it set about 10 minutes
    before spreading. Apply to both surfaces.

  10. #10
    System Three T-88 Epoxy might be worth investigating. Very long open time at room temp: might be just enough open time at your temp.

  11. #11
    Years ago when I glued up the white ash top for my bench I went out and bought a gallon of Titebond Extend. The extra open time removed a lot of the stress of spreading and then clamping the 8 foot long sections.
    Dave Anderson
    Chester Toolworks LLC
    Chester, NH

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    SoCal
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    I've used TB II Extend and found that the time extension was minimal. I really think that it is the humidity difference. 10 - 15% RH plays havoc with PVA glues. Only Epoxy will operate at > 90 and still provide a reasonable open time. I'll just have to do the mass laminations at night when the temps are down and the humidity is up.

  13. #13
    Curt,

    While hot hide glue wouldn't work for your outdoor project you might be surprised at how well in would work for your chop glue up if for no other reason than with hot hide glue you can do "rub' joints with little or no need for clamps. For a rub joint all you do is coat both pieces of wood with hot hide glue, put the two pieces together and move them until you start to feel resistance then make sure they are in final position. Clamping is optional kinda like wearing belts and suspenders.

    ken

  14. #14
    How big is the space you are working in? I suspect low humidity is a bigger deal than high temp. Most folks already have a humidifier sitting around somewhere - especially if you've ever had kids. I wonder if just running a humidifier on high for an hour would generate enough humidity for the PVA glue.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SoCal
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    560
    Chris my shop is a pretty standard 2 car garage (actually no car). I agree that the low RH is the issue. I'll just have to glue in the am or pm when the temp is down and the RH is up.

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