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Thread: Hollow Chisel Mortiser vs. Horizontal Mortiser

  1. #16
    I see them from time to time in local shops. Always some ancient cast iron beast but never actually seen any shop actively using one. Always sort of lumped them in there with things like overhead pin routers or the giant open-wheel bandsaws: From an age gone by.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    I see them from time to time in local shops. Always some ancient cast iron beast but never actually seen any shop actively using one. Always sort of lumped them in there with things like overhead pin routers or the giant open-wheel bandsaws: From an age gone by.

    Erik
    The age hasn't quite gone by since I use one nearly daily. Perhaps context should be provided, as usual.

    If your factory is producing kitchens, then you won't be using a hollow chisel mortiser.

    If you are making studio furniture, then you will find use for a hollow chisel mortiser.

    They aren't commonly used because maintenance effort is required, you have to sharpen the chisel and make sure the machine stays in good shape.

    English and Japanese mortisers are not necessarily gigantic behemoths that take up 50 sq ft.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    I see them from time to time in local shops. Always some ancient cast iron beast but never actually seen any shop actively using one. Always sort of lumped them in there with things like overhead pin routers or the giant open-wheel bandsaws: From an age gone by.

    Erik
    Are you speaking of a hollow chisel mortiser, or a horizontal slot mortiser? Your mention of an ancient cast iron beast leads me to think horizontal slot mortiser.

    I used a horizontal slot mortiser in school (a few years ago). It got quite a bit of use by students making furniture. It was the easiest and most accurate way to make a mortise.

    But I agree that they are big and take a lot of space for something you won't use that often. Today, I make most of my mortises with a Domino.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #19
    Mike, I'm talking about a free-standing vertical hollow-chisel machine. Wish I had taken photos of the last one I saw in a shop in Waco.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    The age hasn't quite gone by since I use one nearly daily. Perhaps context should be provided, as usual.

    If your factory is producing kitchens, then you won't be using a hollow chisel mortiser.

    If you are making studio furniture, then you will find use for a hollow chisel mortiser.

    They aren't commonly used because maintenance effort is required, you have to sharpen the chisel and make sure the machine stays in good shape.

    English and Japanese mortisers are not necessarily gigantic behemoths that take up 50 sq ft.
    Also, comparing domino's, floating tenons, etc. to actual M&T joinery is laughable at best.

    Let me know how long that passage or entry door holds up with modern lazy joinery vs. actual M&T.

    I find it basically impossible to be without a chain mortiser or HCM. Have no real use for a slot mortiser.

  6. #21
    "Let me know how long that passage or entry door holds up with modern lazy joinery vs. actual M&T."

    Is 35 years long enough for you?

    A well proportioned, fitted and glued spline tenon is quite sufficient for most purposes. In conjunction with cope and stick tooling it can be a good choice for doormaking. I have a hollow chisel mortiser for situations that call for square-ended through mortises or where the pieces are too small for inserted tenons like sash joinery. Otherwise I find myself using the stationary slot mortiser or Domino.

    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 05-14-2020 at 2:53 PM.

  7. #22
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    Wink

    Here’s a pair of doors I made 42 years ago with a slot mortiser and loose tenons. Joints are as tight today as when they came out of the clamps. This is a fairly unprotected exposure as well. The corner connection is important and properly done - dowels, dominos and loose tenons are fine for most applications. I like to do true M&T whenever I can but not practical in all applications if you are in the custom joinery business.
    To me what’s laughable is shops using push pull tenoners and sash stickers for building custom doors and windows.

    C896E290-CB8B-4F91-B12D-8EF053A8104F.jpg

  8. #23
    Sure thing Joe. Laughable.
    I can make more tenons on a tenoner then a shaper any day.

    Btw, check will be in the mail.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Also, comparing domino's, floating tenons, etc. to actual M&T joinery is laughable at best.

    Let me know how long that passage or entry door holds up with modern lazy joinery vs. actual M&T.

    I find it basically impossible to be without a chain mortiser or HCM. Have no real use for a slot mortiser.

    In most documented tests a floating tenon of proportionally proper size isn't far from a traditional M&T. If you think of it, a M&T has two non-symmetric ends and a floating tenon has two symmetric ends. If a floating tenon is going to fail for the same reason M&T has a 50% chance of fail too. Again, in most (not all) situations they are equally good.

  10. #25
    I have one of John TenEyck's horizontal router mortisers, and it's the cat's meow at a very reasonable price. It does everything I need including angles. He doesn't advertise, but you can PM him from this site.

  11. #26
    I have one of John TenEyck's horizontal router mortisers, and it's the cat's meow at a very reasonable price. It does everything I need including angled mortises. He doesn't advertise, but you can PM him from this site.

    dp

  12. #27
    Do you mean square like a square dowel? If so I agree a domino won't do it. i would just use a dowel. I'm working from memory but I think the width of one plunge of a domino is 13mm plus the diameter of the bit. So for a 4mm bit, the width would be 17mm or under 3/4 inch. If you need a smaller mortise you would need another tool. I am confident I will not have that need often enough to keep another tool in my space challenged shop.

  13. #28
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    Nice work, Joe. Great looking doors.

    I have found little need for a domino, personally. I have a router, milling machine, hollow chisel mortiser and a swing chisel mortiser. If I added another, given some change in the current amount of space available I would consider adding a Balestrini style mortiser for round ended tenons rather than something like a domino.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    Do you mean square like a square dowel? If so I agree a domino won't do it. i would just use a dowel. I'm working from memory but I think the width of one plunge of a domino is 13mm plus the diameter of the bit. So for a 4mm bit, the width would be 17mm or under 3/4 inch. If you need a smaller mortise you would need another tool. I am confident I will not have that need often enough to keep another tool in my space challenged shop.

    Yes square mortises for square tenons, or any variant of tenon shape not readily produced by the domino. (Less then the minimum width)

    Screenshot_20200515-114805_Instagram.jpg

    toney-window-upper-sash-med_1.jpg

    I'd take a horizontal or maka (the small one) over the domino.
    Last edited by Jared Sankovich; 05-15-2020 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Nice work, Joe. Great looking doors.

    I have found little need for a domino, personally. I have a router, milling machine, hollow chisel mortiser and a swing chisel mortiser. If I added another, given some change in the current amount of space available I would consider adding a Balestrini style mortiser for round ended tenons rather than something like a domino.
    Okay, I'll be the dummy; what is a "swing chisel mortiser"?

    -- Andy - Arlington TX

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