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Thread: Cedar abrasiveness?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    MN
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    Cedar abrasiveness?

    I'm in the process of dimensioning some cedar boards, and I've found that my plane blades are getting dull very quickly. I have Veritas bevel-up jointer, and with a freshly-sharpened A2 blade (finished on a Shapton Kuromaku 12000), the first several passes on a 3.5 foot long board leave a nice, glassy-smooth finish, but after only 20 or so passes, it leaves a fuzzy surface. With a dull blade, you have to advance it to get any cutting action, and for this wood, I've found that I've had to do that much sooner than with other woods.

    The same thing happens with a PM-V11 blade in another plane, though with that plane, I haven't paid close attention to how quickly the surface quality declines. I just know that seemed faster than I'm used to.

    Edit: I also tried using an inexpensive kanna on it, thinking that maybe I needed a low angle to get good surface quality. Similar story: first several passes were glassy smooth, but the quality degraded very, very quickly with that plane. The plane is an inexpensive one (I paid about $50 for it) but the laminated blade has performed just fine, other than in this case.

    Is my experience with cedar a common one? I've found some other discussions that mention that cedar is hard on blades. And what is it about cedar that makes it wear down blades so quickly?
    Last edited by Winston Chang; 05-11-2020 at 10:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Is this a native wood? The only "cedar" I can think of in your area is Northern White Cedar.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    MN
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    I don't know much about it other than that the lumber yard said it was cedar, and it smells like cedar. Here's a picture.

    IMG_0077.jpg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Hutchinson, MN
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    White cedar is hard to find, at least in my part of MN. I’m thinking it’s western red cedar.

  5. #5
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    From > https://www.wood-database.com/aromatic-red-cedar/

    Workability: Overall, Aromatic Red Cedar is easy to work, notwithstanding any knots or irregularities present in the wood. It reportedly has a high silica content, which can dull cutters. Aromatic Red Cedar glues and finishes well, though in many applications, the wood is left unfinished to preserve its aromatic properties.
    It is likely the silica content.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    I agree with Jim - it is the silica content. Most of the woodwork I do these days is turning. My tools are high quality PM steel or other alloys with good edge retention. It isn’t the hardness of the wood that usually dulls an edge, it is the silica in the wood. Often, the softest woods are the worst for wearing an edge. I have turned butter soft wood that would dull the edge in short order, whereas a nice piece of hard maple might take considerably longer.

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Ellsworth, Maine
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    1,805
    Jim nailed it.

    I have worked with a lot of red (western red) cedar which appears to be what you have in your pictures. I can honestly say that I am not a fan of working with this wood. I typically love working with woods similar in cell structure such as Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Eastern White Pine, etc, but Western Red is the worst. There is no way to avoid hitting the stones after 5 or so passes if you're after that glass smooth surface. I've never tried HSS blades on it as I don't own a plane with one but assume it might do a little better. Otherwise you're just stuck either sanding or hitting the stones constantly.

    My latest project is my deck posts that I've done in Western Red, which is unbelievably expensive in Maine, and I struggled terribly with hand planes. I ended up just getting them dimensioned with handplanes and sanded them smooth. With all the posts there was no way to get that glass surface without wearing out my stones.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    MN
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    131
    Thanks for the all the feedback. It's good to know that this isn't just in my head.

    One of the planes I'm using to dimension the wood is a #5 with a heavily cambered HSS blade in it (it's a cheap one which I got from Aliexpress). It's hard to tell if this one is holding up better than the others -- since it's taking a deep cut and I don't expect a super-smooth surface from it anyway, it's harder to tell when there's a loss of sharpness.

    Fortunately, I don't need a pristine surface for this project, since it's going to be outdoors and will be weathered pretty quickly anyway.

    I'm dimensioning the lumber with hand planes and a table saw. I hope the table saw blade holds up reasonably well to the silica. I can sharpen the plane blades, but with the table saw blade, I'd have to buy a new one or send it out to get sharpened.

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