Help me decide: Sawstop PCS31230-PFA30 vs Minimax SC 2C vs Hammer K3 Winner

[Gary Markham]

I went through this process about 18 months ago. I went with the k3 winner package. 80” slider with the outrigger. I love it When I considered the sc 2c the rep pointed out some limits and suggested the 3c is a much better saw. 2c has a lighter weight construction and won’t take a dado I think. I decided I really wanted a slider over the saw stop to help with larger panel cross cutting that is hard to do with a sled because of width. So it came down to 3c or k3. In the time I have used the saw I have not had to rip against the fence. I always stay to the left of the blade and use the slider. Even made a simple slider sled to rip a 2 1/2 thick x 9ft long fire place mantel. Always use my fritz and franz jig. I have been Woodworking for 30 years a had a great griz 1023 before this saw. Never had an accident and only a few minor kickbacks. Am very safety aware. Still the slider feels much safer.
good luck
gary

[Rod Wolfy]

Adrian, I've had a Jet 3hp w/ 52” fence, a Felder BF631, a Bosch job site saw and a SawStop, in that order. I had to downsize to a 2 car garage, which is 20' square.

I learned with the Jet how hard it is to cut down full sheet plywood panels. With the Felder, I didn't have a full frame, just the slider with (2) 20” accessory tables attached (I could balance up to a 48” sheet, no problem).

I found that despite a larger shop space in the past, I had better accuracy cutting my sheet stock down in the driveway. When I got to a smaller space, I had to downsize. In large part, a 52” table was just a landing spot for junk. It's very hard to crosscut an 8' sheet of plywood on a regular cabinet saw.

I liked the Felder slider and I would love one that ran up to the blade, but none of them have the safety of the SawStop (ok, the $20k Felder probably does). But, as I get older, I have found I'm more injury prone, too. (I'm in the middle of my 4th shoulder surgery at the moment).

It seems like you already have a track saw. I would recommend the SawStop with the 3hp motor, too. However, get it with the 36” fence and the mobile base. It comes with the better fence, too. You can move it aside when you really need to.

You may be able to park a full Euro slider in your small shop; however, your going to give up a lot of space, which is not going to then be available for other tools later on. I use the track saw, the SawStop and and a combo 12” jointer/planer all the time. This is after lots of tools and purchases over 20 years.

[Todd Solomon]

This post help clarify things for me too, thank you Rod. Like the OP, I'm trying to figure out how to equip my shop after a 7 year hiatus.

Like you, I've had experience with a few table saws, first with a crappy contractor table saw, then a MiniMax 9' slider, then a Felder 9' slider. Then sold my equipment to pursue other hobbies, but now am going to set up a small shop again.

With my last shop I went maximum everything, lol. This time, I don't have a lot of room. Shop space is tight- a one car spot in my 3-car garage, but that space has to store other items too. I can pull my cars out of the garage to create temporary space to work.

Your comments about going to a smaller table rings true in my case, as I too have a track saw for large sheet goods. I think I can make a Hammer K3 31 x 31 work well. 31" rip, 34" slider travel, no outrigger. That combined with a 12" jointer/planer will keep footprint small (I've owned a 12" Minimax and a 16" Felder prevously, both were absolute dreams to use).

Adrian, I've had a Jet 3hp w/ 52” fence, a Felder BF631, a Bosch job site saw and a SawStop, in that order. I had to downsize to a 2 car garage, which is 20' square.

I learned with the Jet how hard it is to cut down full sheet plywood panels. With the Felder, I didn't have a full frame, just the slider with (2) 20” accessory tables attached (I could balance up to a 48” sheet, no problem).

I found that despite a larger shop space in the past, I had better accuracy cutting my sheet stock down in the driveway. When I got to a smaller space, I had to downsize. In large part, a 52” table was just a landing spot for junk. It's very hard to crosscut an 8' sheet of plywood on a regular cabinet saw.

I liked the Felder slider and I would love one that ran up to the blade, but none of them have the safety of the SawStop (ok, the $20k Felder probably does). But, as I get older, I have found I'm more injury prone, too. (I'm in the middle of my 4th shoulder surgery at the moment).

It seems like you already have a track saw. I would recommend the SawStop with the 3hp motor, too. However, get it with the 36” fence and the mobile base. It comes with the better fence, too. You can move it aside when you really need to.

You may be able to park a full Euro slider in your small shop; however, your going to give up a lot of space, which is not going to then be available for other tools later on. I use the track saw, the SawStop and and a combo 12” jointer/planer all the time. This is after lots of tools and purchases over 20 years.

[Jim Becker]

That sounds like a good plan, Todd...you'll get the precision you enjoyed previously in a smaller, more affordable footprint by going with a short stroke slider and a J/P combo.

[Alan Lightstone]

I have a SawStop and love it. I'm a retired orthopaedic surgeon and bought mine about 10 years ago after a long night repairing another woodworkers damaged hands. I can personally vouch that the mechanism works, since I've set it off myself (stupidly ran it into a piece of aluminum miter gauge).

The saw fits my shop and my work style. I don't do much with large sheets, and I can break those down on the rare instance I need to with a track-saw set up. I have several sized cross cut sleds which work well for me, and I feel secure with the knowledge that if I do anything extra stupid the saw will protect me. I remain diligent against kickback at all times of course. The saw is extremely well made, sturdy, with a solid mobile base. I have the Beisemeyer clone fence and it has been great.

Adrian:

I'm a retired anesthesiologist, and have seen way too many patients with missing fingers and had to take care of them when we tried (very often in vain) to reimplant fingers, or complete amputations of their digits.

How you get to a safe saw is not terribly important, as long as you get there. So a slider is great. So is a SawStop (my personal choice, an ICS). A conventional cabinet saw - not worth the risk to me. I like my fingers. I plan on keeping them. I also made multiple crosscut sleds, and have a panel saw and a track saw to cut down large sheets, as I can't lift them anymore.

Good luck with your choice. Just stay safe.

[Harvey Miller]

I have a Sawstop with 36” fence & mobile base in my 12' x 13' basement ‘shop’. Before deciding on which one to get I made a light wooden frame of it’s ‘footprint’ and used it to see how it would fit my space. Walking around the footprint gave me an idea of it’s practicality in the space.
It spends most of it’s time butted against the wall, only moved out when the workpiece requires it (with infeed & outfeed stands as required). I still use a tracksaw and portable cut table for full size sheet goods.

[Phil Gaudio]

Sawstop: hands (with all five fingers) down.

[Brian W Evans]

Adrian,

Here is a link to a catalog that has the dimensions for the Minimax machine: LINK, including how much space it requires.

I have a Minimax SC4 Elite (8.5' slider), which is a fantastic machine. It's in this catalog.

One thing that is possible with a slider is that you can do most or all of your work to the left of the blade and not really need the rip fence. You can therefore put the saw very close to a wall on the right side of the blade and have room for big outrigger on the left. If you have room to slide a 8.5' table forward and backwards, I would look for a used 8 foot slider. The machine itself will be more robust and you'll have the bigger capacity. I was able to leave the extension table on my saw to the right of the blade, but I almost never use it. I don't really think I'd miss it if I took it off.

My shop has poles, too, but I have just over 9' to the left of the blade and just enough room front to back for a full stroke of the slider. This covers 99.9% of what I need to do, even with sheet goods.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a K3 Winner, 79x48. A lot of the time I could get by with a 48x48, but it is nice to have the longer length occasionally. Never have seen a minimax, although have seen a SCMI, which is a great size for a cabinet shop. The owner of the cabinet shop said they bought and use it for the safety it affords. And is easy to square up their panels.

[Greg Parrish]

I’ve not listed it for sale but If you were closer I’d offer to sell you my Felder KF500 Pro setup. However it would be more than your budget if including the power feeder, bracket, blades, dado and shaper head. It’s in superb condition with nearly every option. I’m just not using it much these days.

[ADRIAN MACEIRAS]

Thanks everyone for their individual perspectives. This is a lot to digest and now I am leaning more towards buying the largest slider than can reasonable fit in my space. Unfortunately, I decided that I should first add A/C to my garage so working through installing a miniduct a/c atm which is going to delay this purchase by a few months.

[Jim Becker]

The MiniSplit is a great choice (no regrets from me on mine!) and yea...see what you can fit comfortably.

[Darcy Warner]

The table saw is way down on my list machinery that could maim me.

[Stephen White]

Thanks everyone for their individual perspectives. This is a lot to digest and now I am leaning more towards buying the largest slider than can reasonable fit in my space. Unfortunately, I decided that I should first add A/C to my garage so working through installing a miniduct a/c atm which is going to delay this purchase by a few months.

Hey I added a split AC (rated for 600') in my garage in Texas and really impressed. It is an attached garage with 3 walls insulated but that unit will get the shop comfortable in about 20 minutes in 100 degree heat and at a couple grand installed pretty cheap. I just bought a 2k contractors sawstop, maybe consider that for now since you have to do the AC and bump up later.