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Thread: Thoughts on dust collection layout

  1. #1

    Thoughts on dust collection layout

    I'm looking for advice on if my runs are too long for my HF 2HP DC. I was planning on using 4" trunk lines along the wall (above the ceiling) going on both directions to minimize distance. Still I have some fairly long runs. Here are the drops I have planned and the distance to the blast gate for that tool. The shop is 20x30 with the DC in one corner

    Lathe: 24'
    8" jointer: 41'
    delta unisaw: 55'
    miter saw: 14'
    sweep port: 28'
    radial arm saw: 44'

    These sound kind of long so I'm concerned that it simply can pull that distance. One man shop so will only be one gate open at a time.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Those are some long runs. 4" pipe and fittings is going to be very restrictive.

    Start with calculating the airflow for each branch and the static pressure you will have to overcome with different pipe sizes and filtering options (including none, i.e. blowing the waste directly into an outside bin), then decide what is required for a blower. You will probably be best served with 6" main lines. This is a helpful guide https://airhand.com/designing/

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness View Post
    Those are some long runs. 4" pipe and fittings is going to be very restrictive.

    Start with calculating the airflow for each branch and the static pressure you will have to overcome with different pipe sizes and filtering options (including none, i.e. blowing the waste directly into an outside bin), then decide what is required for a blower. You will probably be best served with 6" main lines. This is a helpful guide https://airhand.com/designing/
    Thanks. I'm also concerned that my little HF 2HP DC can't. handle those runs even on 6". It only has a 5" inlet and I'm not prepared to step up to a bigger DC.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    It's never a good idea to do a perimeter design when you can avoid it because it invariably adds length to many runs that are farther out. This is one reason you so often see a main trunk (or a split main trunk) that generally takes a diagonal path that minimizes the run length for a given tool based on the length of the main trunk to the branch and then the branch to the drop. Those lengths are also going to be a challenge for such a small collector. If you have a 5" inlet, that's what your main trunk line should be. That will require you to use metal (26 gage or heavier) since anything "plastic" tends to be only available in even numbers. It's likely you can replace the inlet with a 6" flange, however, and even with your 2hp unit, having a 6" main can be beneficial as long as you're only open to one tool at a time. This is all "in general", of course...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Reggie, I’m in the same situation as you. I decided to roll the HF around to where I need it. I won’t install piping until I upgrade to a bigger dust collector. It just didn’t make sense to me to plumb for the small collector. I might even get a second cheap dust collector for the other side of the shop. It would be cheaper than plumbing. Just my 2 cents.

  6. #6
    I will likely do some testing on 30' runs with my DC to see how it goes. But if it's not that good, as I sort of suspect, I'll be rolling mine around as well. Still I have a plan to try and minimize my runs (keep them 30' or less). I'm going to price some 5" metal around town today.

  7. #7
    I'm pulling through 6" ducts with a 1 1/2HP blower and cyclone which was a "temporary" setup while trying to find a 3HP blower. I finally gave up looking that has been about 3 years ago. I've been using it as is, and while not optimal, it does the job well enough to satisfy me.

    FWIW I have a floor sweep app. 30' away and it will suck up small screws.

    Layout is very important. You have to have a big system

    I think the 5" ducts would be better than 4, I'm confident your blower will handle 6".

    I would add that layout if all important. If you want to do a perimeter set up in a shop that size you probably need a bigger blower.
    Last edited by Robert Engel; 04-14-2020 at 9:55 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Collegeville PA (30 min west of Philly)
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    695
    I can give you a direct data point in case it's useful...

    I went through all of this already. To be honest, I ignored all the advice I received, figuring I'd already invested some $$ in the HF unit, and that if I just did a really good job with my setup my experience would be different... or that "good enough" would be far better than no dust collection at all. Again, I had the same HF 2 HP dust collector. My longest run (including 45 degree bends... no 90's) was just under 30 feet. I had a shop built Thien Baffle.

    First, I used 4" PVC. It collected some dust I suppose... but not very well. So I took down that pipe (it's still sitting in my attic... so that $$ is sunk) and tried again.

    Then I upgraded to 6". Dramatic improvement, but still generally awful. In the pipe I would later find piles of dust that just couldn't stay suspended long enough to reach the end of the runs.

    One day, saw dust piled on the floor as usual (despite constantly running the DC), I slipped on a hidden piece of scrap and bumped my head on my bandsaw (a little blood, no stitches)... With minimal searching, I found a 3 hp unit on FB marketplace for $300 (sold the old unit for $75 literally in 10 minutes). Since I already had the 6" pipe in place, most of my install focus was around upgrading to Super Dust Deputy XL and adding a Wynn filter. Admittedly, those two upgrades ran me another $500 ish (hard to remember) but wow was it worth it.

    The amount of improvement on my dust collection is ridiculous. My shop is cleaner and safer, and it's just more enjoyable to work in there. Do I still have to sweep up and use the leaf blower periodically? Sure, but wayyyyyyyyyyyy less often (like once a month instead of daily).

    So I guess my advice is... please consider if your experience may go like mine... HF (or other small DC) setup with long runs just doesn't work great generally. It may make sense to wheel your unit around for now, or at least bigger pipe with plans to upgrade soon, or just upgrade to something bigger right away (going used market can keep the price way down).

    Not trying to be a downer, just have been there and done that, and I'd be $$ ahead if I'd gone a different route from the start.
    - Bob R.
    Collegeville PA (30 minutes west of Philly)

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Burnett View Post
    I'm going to price some 5" metal around town today.
    Make sure you are looking at 26 gage or heavier ("stove pipe"), not regular HVAC pipe which is about 30 gage.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    Thanks. definitely will. I think I'm going to test out my HF on a 30' run of the 4" pvc just to see what we are talking about. Sheesh, planning out a decent system is a lot of work.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Riefer View Post
    One day, saw dust piled on the floor as usual (despite constantly running the DC), I slipped on a hidden piece of scrap and bumped my head on my bandsaw (a little blood, no stitches)... With minimal searching, I found a 3 hp unit on FB marketplace for $300 (sold the old unit for $75 literally in 10 minutes).
    Great info, thanks! Care to share what 3HP unit you bought? I found an old Powermatic model 75 near me they are wanting $300 for. have no idea how old it is.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reggie Burnett View Post
    Great info, thanks! Care to share what 3HP unit you bought? I found an old Powermatic model 75 near me they are wanting $300 for. have no idea how old it is.
    That DC has a 14" fan which is a huge improvement over the HF. The HF has a 10" fan (so really 1.5HP) so expect about double the static pressure from the Powermatic. I don't think you'll find a 3HP unit with a larger fan. Some of those labeled 3HP have only a 12" fan and won't be much better than a real 2HP DC.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  13. #13
    Reggie, that PM75 is about $1000 new retail for the current model. I also understand that is has a 14” impeller. A 3hp grizzly is like $600 to my door step and it only has about a 12” impeller. Chances are the PM75 would be much better than the grizzly. Probably has a better motor also. 3hp is what I want to do when finally upgrade. Makes more sense to me than the HF unit upgrades. And you can use it with plumbing, but still roll it from machine to machine until that happens. There was one in Austin for $400 on Craigslist recently. Wasn’t the right time for me to get it, unfortunately.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
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    This is a timely post, I'm in the same situation. I have an old 2HP BusyBee/Craftex B404 motor, 2HP with a 12" impeller. Currently connected to a SDD, but not the XL version. My recent challenges with my new Fusion F3 have me looking at dust collection again.
    41D27132-EC91-4621-9E50-3CE6C9B9132B.jpg

    I'm pricing out 6" PVC and Metal to see what the best way forward is. I'm worried that running 6" to the machine, then dropping to either single, or multiple 4" drops on the machine will overwhelm my dust collector.

    Here is my proposed Layout, with rough distances.

    Dust Layout.jpg

    So my question is really, for those with bigger brains then I, and strong opinions.

    1. Could I run 6" pipe throughout the shop, (23' x 26'), including drops and then reduce to 4" at the machines and not have major issues? I only run one machine at a time with the dust collector.
    2. Should I run 6" mains and then drop to 5" or 4" down to the machines?
    3. Should I just order 5" duct, the size of my SDD inlet, and run that throughout?

    For reference with 4" duct I'm getting between 3500 FPM and 4300FPM using my Amazon Anemometer (sp).

    I have a friend donating 6" PVC pipe, though not fittings. So that's expensive, but also have a great quote for around $400 CDN for all the metal pipe I need, spiral 26 Gauge, and 28 Gauge fittings at either 5" or 6".

    that's a lot to unload, but hopefully I'm adding to the thread and not highjacking it!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    You
    Quote Originally Posted by David Roddis View Post
    This is a timely post, I'm in the same situation.

    I have a friend donating 6" PVC pipe, though not fittings. So that's expensive, but also have a great quote for around $400 CDN for all the metal pipe I need, spiral 26 Gauge, and 28 Gauge fittings at either 5" or 6".

    that's a lot to unload, but hopefully I'm adding to the thread and not highjacking it!
    Hi David,
    It seems there are a few of us going through the same planning. I have a 2 hp CWI cyclone that I currently roll to each machine. I’m not loving the constant moving and connecting. I’d like to change that and switch from 4” flexible hose to 6” pipe with 4”reducers at the machines. My shop is a single car garage so the runs aren’t too long.
    Seeing how you are are in an area I’m pretty familiar with, do you mind me asking where you sourced the metal pipe and fittings? Although, it is off limits now, I go to Halifax regularly to visit family and just roam around the city.
    Best of luck with your project!
    PS. I’m pretty sure I’m guilty of a hijacking. Dang. Apologies to the OP.

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