fuming QSWO question

[Bill Carey]

I went back and searched the forum but could not find an answer to my question. I have 15 smallish (10" x 20") wall pieces that I want to try fuming. Since they are meant to hang on the wall, the finish needs to be on all sides. Question is: if I stand them up in the tent will the finish penetrate to the flat surface they are standing on. I've seen that the fuming process goes pretty deep with industrial ammonia - which I will use - so might it get to the area covered because they are standing on it? If not I'll have to come up with a way to hang them - can't build a tent big enough to lay them flat on stand offs.

[Rob Luter]

I fume a fair bit and often use bamboo kabob sticks to get the bottom of the workpiece stood off of the fuming vessel floor and as stickers between layers. The color afterwards is uniform. I use a big plastic tub with a lid instead of a tent. It has a bottom about 24” x 36”. I got it at Lowe’s for cheap. It seals up nice and all you need is a couple ounces of industrial ammonia to do the trick.

[John TenEyck]

Bill, fuming is dangerous, dyes are not. There's a reason Stickley and others stopped fuming their products.

But if you must try it, be sure to wear a respirator with ammonia cartridges and sealed googles. I damned near fell into a paper making vat after getting a good wiff of ammonia in the face. My throat and eyes both closed in a couple of seconds. Fortunately, I fell on the floor and not into the vat. You do not want this to happen to you.

John

[Mark Daily]

When I studied drafting in high school we used ammonia to develop our drawings. It was nasty stuff that would burn your nasal passages in a heartbeat. Ever since then I’ve stayed away from it.

[Bill Carey]

John and Mark - appreciate your concern. Have a 3M full face mask and ammonia cartridges. That part doesn't worry me. Plus it will be outside.

Rob - bamboo skewers is a good idea. I could super glue them to a pc of mdf so they don't roll and stand the frames on them. Would be delicate but probably work. Thx.

[Rob Luter]

When I studied drafting in high school we used ammonia to develop our drawings. It was nasty stuff that would burn your nasal passages in a heartbeat. Ever since then I’ve stayed away from it.

That’s the good stuff. I got mine at a blueprint supply house. It doesn’t take much.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I've done test pieces in a small plastic tub, and just laid them in there so one face was down touching the bottom. It got fumed just as well as the top. Seems like you would need a pretty darn good seal to prevent the fumes from penetrating. So I suspect you would be fine just setting them in your tent, but placing bamboo skewers or something like that underneath sounds like a good idea for insurance.

The 10% janitor grade ammonia you can get at ACE works well enough, I got pretty good coloration after 4-8 hours depending on temperature. It's not quite as dangerous as the industrial stuff, but would still recommend wearing ammonia rated respirator and goggles, and doing it outside if possible.

On complicated pieces with lots of parts the fuming process sure is nice, rather than having to do all of the steps of a dye job on each piece.

[Bill Carey]

.........On complicated pieces with lots of parts the fuming process sure is nice, rather than having to do all of the steps of a dye job on each piece.

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately my neighbor, a nurse, asked if I had a N95's, and I don't. But she asked if I had anything, and well, hell, now I don't have a mask anymore. Said she would return it - I said please don't.

So 10%, outside, upwind on a windy day without a mask.......

[Mark Daily]

My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately my neighbor, a nurse, asked if I had a N95's, and I don't. But she asked if I had anything, and well, hell, now I don't have a mask anymore. Said she would return it - I said please don't.

So 10%, outside, upwind on a windy day without a mask.......

How long can you hold your breath? Lol!

[Bill Carey]

How long can you hold your breath? Lol!

Not long with my cigar in my mouth. But, to utter those famous last words, I Have A Plan......

Give me about a week and I'll post my rube goldberg solution.

[Rob Luter]

My plan is to always do it outside and stay upwind of the ammonia. I gave up cigars a few years back and that helps. I arrange all the parts to be fumed in my tub first, Then I pour an inch of ammonia in a yogurt cup and set it inside. Cap goes on jug, lid goes on tub. 24 hours later I pull out the goodies.

Here's the last. I did a little box experiment with frame and panel to prove out some joinery concepts. White oak scraps and some white oak plywood. The tannin difference between the two gave a two tone look. I'm certain the aesthetic will help it hold stuff better.

49773664528_97ed0a66be_b.jpg

[Mark Gibney]

Bill what I've done for this is take a piece of plywood and shoot a bunch of 2" brads thru it then place the oak pieces sitting on the sharp ends of the brads, so the fumes can circulate all around them.

I do a bit of fuming with ammonia on occasion, and I agree it is nasty stuff. I never enjoy the thought of working with it.

[William Chain]

I’ve fumed several pieces and had zero problems with uniform permeation, even the bits on the ground inside the tent. I’m a chemist by trade so I used concentrated ammonium hydroxide. You can get the same at a drafting store. The reaction is inside the wood, unless you’re using household ammonia, it’ll work fine without heroic efforts to suspend the pieces in mid air.

[Dylan Wyatt]

I just did my first project ammonia fuming a white oak slab. They wanted dark and I ended fuming with the 10% janitor strength stuff for 18 hours then staining it with American Walnut Varathane. I had a couple sample boards laying flat and fumes didn't get to the down side of the boards very well. I had the desk top elevated about an inch and the color was uniform on it. Definitely make sure you are up wind, even the 10% stuff is plenty potent. I opened all overhead doors and had a fan at my back when I tore down the tent I made.

A few pics

Before
Snapchat-1494903678.jpg

After
Snapchat-788643245.jpg

After Staining. Fantastic depth of color without the hiding the grain like stain has a tendency to do.
IMG_20200420_204327.jpg

[Scott T Smith]

Bill, I use 49% laboratory grade ammonia and does it work fast! The 29% blueprint grade is a bit safer to work around.

I’ve done suspended fuming in plastic sleeves, and also used painters pyramids to set the piece on inside a tent. Both work well, but I have minimal fume loss using the sleeves. They are heat sealed at the top, folded and taped up on the bottom and I simply pour some ammonia into the bottom of the bag. Upon completion the bottom is unfolded, catching the leftover liquid in a bowl, which is then returned to the jug and resealed.

I too use a facial respirator with the ammonia cartridges. No problems thus far.