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Thread: Harbor Freight Dust Collector circuit pops

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Dufour View Post
    20FLA is how I read peak amps. 1.25 times 20 amps =25 amp breaker minuiumum size. You need to upgrade to a 30 amp breaker and wiring. I do not think you will be able to find a 25 amp breaker or 25 amp wire so just step up to 30 amp which is a common size.
    Or switch the motor to 240 volts and amps will drop to 10. 1.25 times 10amps is 12.5 amps so a 20 amp breaker will be fine.
    Bil lD
    It does seem like your calculations make sense, but I don't trust the "20amp peak" on the HF unit. Also, others I've seen on the web with the same Rikon impellor I'm using have measured the current draw (unfortunately I don't have the tool to do so). One guy over on Lumberjocks measured an increase from 9a to 10a during run and got about 25a during startup (and specifically noted he'd never blown his 20a dedicated breaker). See post 39 here.

    This one is a bit different, but he ends up with:
    Before: Startup amps, 14.27 Running 10.17 After: Startup 18.7, Running 12.7
    Like I said in my previous post, it looks like I have at least a capacitor issue, possibly more, so I'm going to hold tight on any electrical changes as there's just too many examples of people with a similar setup as me without issues.

    FYI, the HF DC cannot be wired for 240V.

  2. #32
    When I said I would try another breaker I meant another 20A breaker. I guess "cheating" up to a 25A wouldn't be terrible but breakers really should match the wiring. That way they won't overheat and burn the house down.

    I also increased the size of the blower inlet to 6 inch and use 5 inch snap lock pipe (from HD, not the thin stuff the local Lowe's had) and my discharge to the outside is 6 inch.

    My experience with bad breakers is with old ones but I wouldn't be surprised to have a new one be bad sometime. I have a circuit I rarely use that the breaker trips with no load in the circuit. I need to replace it (and if the new one trips, I will have to figure out what is wrong in the circuit). I like replacing the breaker because having a spare breaker is a good thing anyway.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    When I said I would try another breaker I meant another 20A breaker. I guess "cheating" up to a 25A wouldn't be terrible but breakers really should match the wiring. That way they won't overheat and burn the house down.

    I also increased the size of the blower inlet to 6 inch and use 5 inch snap lock pipe (from HD, not the thin stuff the local Lowe's had) and my discharge to the outside is 6 inch.

    My experience with bad breakers is with old ones but I wouldn't be surprised to have a new one be bad sometime. I have a circuit I rarely use that the breaker trips with no load in the circuit. I need to replace it (and if the new one trips, I will have to figure out what is wrong in the circuit). I like replacing the breaker because having a spare breaker is a good thing anyway.
    Understood, Jim. I can try plugging it into my other new 20a circuit and see what happens. Could be a bad breaker, although brand new. I think the tests on the capacitor show that I at least have a problem there so I have one of those on order. Will try the other circuit tomorrow. Only difference is I will have to use an extension cord.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Andresen View Post
    Understood, Jim. I can try plugging it into my other new 20a circuit and see what happens. Could be a bad breaker, although brand new. I think the tests on the capacitor show that I at least have a problem there so I have one of those on order. Will try the other circuit tomorrow. Only difference is I will have to use an extension cord.
    Well I think I had a double whammy with a bad capacitor as well as a potentially bad breaker. Just my luck. For those that have been following along, here's the latest:

    1) I got a new capacitor from Amazon for $7 and installed it yesterday to replace the old one that showed issues on the old used DC I bought. Here's the one I ordered.
    2) Testing. I could not turn on my DC at all prior to installing the new Cap. After installing, it fired right up no problem. Turned it off, turned it back on, all good. I did my previous test where I turned it off and then back on before the fan stopped spinning down. While spinning fairly fast, it kicked back on. While almost stopped, it still blew my breaker when trying to turn back on. That's OK I thought, I'll just leave it on rather than turn it off and on when I know I'll need it again before too long. I reset the breaker, and came back 30 minutes later and tried to start it up again and it blew the breaker again!! That was a deal breaker so at this point I was super frustrated!
    3) Now that I had a new capacitor in place, but still having electrical problems, I got out an extension cord and plugged into my 2nd new 20a circuit (which I plan to use for my tablesaw, bandsaw, etc, since I ran outlets by those machines on that circuit). With an extension cord to that circuit, the DC ran without any problems and I couldn't get the breaker to blow no matter what I did, including turning it back on while it was still slowly spinning down (which it does for a long, long while!). The initial dedicated outlet tests fine with my outlet tester, so I'm thinking I have a bad breaker even though it is brand new. I'm going to swap it out and see if that finally solves all of my problems!

    Because the DC works fine on the 2nd outlet, I do not think I have a bad centrifugal switch at this point. So good news is I shouldn't have to take my DC down and get it repaired or replaced, but the issues aren't quite fully resolved yet.

    Thanks for all the help and advice, everyone!

  5. #35
    I'm glad you got it working.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dwight View Post
    I'm glad you got it working.
    Thanks Jim.

    Final update if anyone is curious - I finally changed out the new breaker today. No problems at all with the new one in place! Goes to show you that brand new breakers can have problems too!

  7. #37
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    Craig, new breakes can be bad for sure. My house was built in the early 70s and I have a Zinnsco panel, which I was told I should replace... So I wanted to run a sub panel to the basement for my shop. I got a 2-pole 60A breaker from Amazon (there is only one company that makes replacement breakers for Zinnsco). I hooked up (2) 20A 110V outlets and (1) 20A 230V outlet. After I got done I checked everything with a multi-meter, one of the 110v outlets was good, the other didn't have current, and I only had 110V at the 230V outlet. So one of the 110v legs from the breaker in the garage didn't work. I ended up getting the same brand breaker this time from a local electrical supply house for twice what I paid on Amazon, but it worked.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Yeaglin View Post
    Craig, new breakes can be bad for sure. My house was built in the early 70s and I have a Zinnsco panel, which I was told I should replace... So I wanted to run a sub panel to the basement for my shop. I got a 2-pole 60A breaker from Amazon (there is only one company that makes replacement breakers for Zinnsco). I hooked up (2) 20A 110V outlets and (1) 20A 230V outlet. After I got done I checked everything with a multi-meter, one of the 110v outlets was good, the other didn't have current, and I only had 110V at the 230V outlet. So one of the 110v legs from the breaker in the garage didn't work. I ended up getting the same brand breaker this time from a local electrical supply house for twice what I paid on Amazon, but it worked.
    That’s super frustrating. I ended up wasting a lot of time and effort trying to troubleshoot. At least changing out a breaker is really easy :-).

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Andresen View Post
    Final update if anyone is curious - I finally changed out the new breaker today. No problems at all with the new one in place! Goes to show you that brand new breakers can have problems too!
    Glad you got it figured out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Yeaglin View Post
    My house was built in the early 70s and I have a Zinnsco panel, which I was told I should replace...
    The house my parents bought in 87 had a Zinsco panel. The panel was behind a kitchen cabinet, so it would have been a PITA to get to if a breaker had tripped. But they didn't trip; short circuits just continued to arc until something melted. Replaced it after a couple of years.

    Bruce

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Andresen View Post
    Thanks Jim.

    Final update if anyone is curious - I finally changed out the new breaker today. No problems at all with the new one in place! Goes to show you that brand new breakers can have problems too!
    Been going through the exact same issue recently, seems that the HF blower does not like tandem 20a breakers. This was driving me insane and assumed I'd need to move up to a 25a but I rearranged things a bit so that particular circuit is on a dedicated 20a slot, now working fine as long as nothing else is consuming any power. Worth noting that the motor supplied with the HF unit is pretty inefficient and cannot be re-wired for 220v.


    The previous owners of this house had left a 30a breaker on what had been a 14ga wired circuit

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Kelly View Post
    Been going through the exact same issue recently, seems that the HF blower does not like tandem 20a breakers. This was driving me insane and assumed I'd need to move up to a 25a but I rearranged things a bit so that particular circuit is on a dedicated 20a slot, now working fine as long as nothing else is consuming any power. Worth noting that the motor supplied with the HF unit is pretty inefficient and cannot be re-wired for 220v.


    The previous owners of this house had left a 30a breaker on what had been a 14ga wired circuit
    In a previous post in this thread I mentioned that I didn't know if tandem breakers had different trip characteristics. I got curious after that and looked it up. For the QO breakers I have there is a significant difference. The tandems trip sooner at moderate overloads and the magnetic trip current is much lower, 100A vs 240A for a 20A breaker.
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  12. #42
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    Ah, ok makes sense as my load center is a QO as well.

  13. Craig -

    Are you using a standard breaker (non AFCI/GFCI etc)?

    I'm having problems with my harbor freight dust collector tripping my breaker, too. I ran 10 gauge wire (just in case) and am using 20 amp receptacle and 20 amp dual function (AFCI/GFCI) breaker. I've read vacuums (aka dust collectors) have internal arcing and will trip AFCI breakers.

    For my testing, I plugged it into another 20 amp circuit using a 20 amp dual function (ACFI/GFCI) breaker and it tripped. Next, I plugged it into another 20 amp circuit using a standard 20 amp breaker with a GFCI receptacle in line and it does NOT trip. Therefore, I'm assuming it's due to internal motor arcing and not the circuit/wiring.

    Bummer because I'd like to use the dual function breaker ($50) for safety purposes, but I can't if it's going to trip all the time.

  14. #44
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    Sep 2016
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    What gets me is it seems like it will start up cold from a dead stop no problems. But after the motor is warmed up it does not want to restart. Normally a motor is easier to start when the bearings are warmed up.
    Bil lD

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