Is It Time?

[Jim Becker]

Is it feasible at all for high speed internet service to be distributed on a wide area basis wirelessly? I don't know if this would be by satellite or the same concept as wi-fi on a large scale?.

Yes, it is and that's one of the reasons for the push for 5G. (Although in rural areas, it's likely going to all be low-band and therefore, only about 205 faster than 4G LTE is today for data transmission. The challenge with wireless service is that the providers are going to have to be willing to re-jigger how they charge for bandwidth. It can be truly very expensive at the current time for "hot spot" type use because of bandwidth limitations/caps/throttling, etc. None of that is good for folks who want to stream content with the same fervor they do on fixed line services like cable Internet or fiber services like the Verizon FiOS I use.

[Brian Elfert]

Unfortunately, DSL is also a dying service as copper is being retired at an accelerated rate because it's become nearly impossible to maintain in many areas anymore. VZ is completely shutting down copper infrastructure in what appears to be the majority of its footprint by August of this year. While much of that will get taken care of with renewed deployment of fiber, that's not true everywhere. ATT is doing similar in many areas. One other aspect of this is that once an area converts to fiber, that essentially puts CLECs out of business because unlike with copper that was originally subsidized, the fiber is "private" and there's no regulation that requires VZ or ATT or whomever to share that fiber with any other entity. That copper sharing was something that helped DSL to thrive in many areas, but once it's shut down...it's "gone" even though it will still be hanging out on the poles until the world ends or it disintegrates on its own.

My understanding is Verizon is providing land line service via a cellular box placed in the home if one still wants land line service. I recall that some phone companies did not replace copper lines after hurricane Sandy.

[Brandon Speaks]

As much as I tend to be anti big government, internet access to rural areas is a problem that needs to be solved.

Fyi thou being a utility does not guarantee access. There is one permanent resident on the road my cabin is on and we dont have electricity on that road.

Finding a way to make internet significantly more accessible needs to happen though. Alternatively 5g coverage could work. My hotspot is fast and reliable.

[John Goodin]

Just to highlight the significance of high speed internet, our local school district issues laptops to every kid in grades 6-12. Most assignments are completed and turned in online. They are going to deploy 6000 more to students in the higher elementary grades soon to help with at home learning as a result of the virus. Almost all school communication — homework calendars, official notices, report cards, grade book access — is completely online.

The district has over 35,000 students and parents pay $70 per year maintenance fee for the laptop. If there is a financial need the fee is waived.

[Jim Becker]

My understanding is Verizon is providing land line service via a cellular box placed in the home if one still wants land line service. I recall that some phone companies did not replace copper lines after hurricane Sandy.

They attempted to do that after Sandy, but the push-back was huge because what they were using didn't work with medical devices, etc., and the largest portion of folks needing them were older with medical requirements. They stopped doing that and are currently tying up loose ends for all of the wiring centers (COs) that are decommissioning copper by August by finishing fiber build-outs. There will still be some copper wiring centers still running in parts of VA and some other areas, but most of their area is (finally) moving to 100% fiber.

[Art Mann]

Bruce, sorry your arguments don't hold water. At least where I live, if you choose to build or move into an existing house that is far awat from power or phone service, you will have to pay for the utility to run the service to your house. The cost of your decision could be many thousands of dollars. I just built a new house in an upscale neighborhood. The company that was already in the neighborhood wanted to charge me $500 for running service to the house because they needed to add more than just a cable. I did my research and concluded that there was no way to escape the fee. Fortunately, another competing company came into the neighborhood and agreed to provide service for zero installation dollars. I doubt if this would be true if cable was considered a utility.

It is not the cable company's responsibility to provide you with high speed internet for no installation fee no matter how your children are educated. Neither is it their responsibility to deliver bills to you.

Keith, sorry your arguments don't hold water. Remember now school children are REQUIRED to do lessons on line. Schools systems have been giving out computers, but without high speed access, they are as useful a "tits on a boar hog."Look at your phone bill (land line, or cell) and you will see a universal service fee. That's used to help those who can't afford it, plus pay for 911 service. As a regulated utility, all providers would have to justify charges to regulators. None of this "Mickey Mouse Stuff" you now see on your bill would exist. As an example, Verizon charges for sending you a bill, electronically, or by snail mail. How the heck (polite term) are you supposed to pay them if you don't know what your bill is? Look at the co-op phone companies and how they embraced high speed internet. Friend lives in southwest Virginia mountains. Co-op phone company provides high speed internet to all customers. When he lived in Cary (one of the richest towns in NC) he had to use satillite for internet as neither provider wanted to run lines down his street, a total distance of less than 1/4 mile, serving six houses. Their argument, in ten years, this area will have street widened and housing developments in place. As for rates, and service, only competition regulates price on both internet, and cell service. Across the creek from us (22 houses) less than 1/4 mile away they have three choices for internet, Century Link, Spectrum, and Ting, all offering 200 MB, or faster speed, for less than $50 / month (average,) plus the junk fees.

[Ronald Blue]

Bruce, sorry your arguments don't hold water. At least where I live, if you choose to build or move into an existing house that is far awat from power or phone service, you will have to pay for the utility to run the service to your house. The cost of your decision could be many thousands of dollars. I just built a new house in an upscale neighborhood. The company that was already in the neighborhood wanted to charge me $500 for running service to the house because they needed to add more than just a cable. I did my research and concluded that there was no way to escape the fee. Fortunately, another competing company came into the neighborhood and agreed to provide service for zero installation dollars. I doubt if this would be true if cable was considered a utility.

It is not the cable company's responsibility to provide you with high speed internet for no installation fee no matter how your children are educated. Neither is it their responsibility to deliver bills to you.

I will agree with that Art. When we built our new home 2 years ago even though the power company had lines right in front of our property it still cost me about $5000 to get power ran 300 feet to where the transformer is setting. As for cable/internet...well Mediacom is a joke. Because the "technician" didn't want to do the work they declined to run their service in. Interesting how when he wheeled off the distance he circled around to the back of the property to add distance. It worked out for the best though. We now have fiber and couldn't be happier with it. Fast and dependable. At what cost does the government mandate everyone get high speed internet? How much are we to pay for sparsely populated areas to get high speed internet?

[Brian Elfert]

They attempted to do that after Sandy, but the push-back was huge because what they were using didn't work with medical devices, etc., and the largest portion of folks needing them were older with medical requirements. They stopped doing that and are currently tying up loose ends for all of the wiring centers (COs) that are decommissioning copper by August by finishing fiber build-outs. There will still be some copper wiring centers still running in parts of VA and some other areas, but most of their area is (finally) moving to 100% fiber.

It seems like it would have been cheaper to just run in a smaller number of copper pairs to reflect reduced usage. I suppose they hope to repay the cost of the fiber by getting more Internet customers and maybe supplying TV service too.

[Brian Elfert]

A local large school district gave out 1,700 wireless hot spots recently for students without Internet to do online learning. This is an urban district so I don't think the issue is not being able to get high speed Internet. The issue is generally that the households are low income and couldn't afford Internet service.

[Jim Becker]

It seems like it would have been cheaper to just run in a smaller number of copper pairs to reflect reduced usage. I suppose they hope to repay the cost of the fiber by getting more Internet customers and maybe supplying TV service too.

They are decommissioning all the copper support infrastructure since most of it is unsupported by the original manufacturers and parts are non-existent. Moving to fiber also solves the distance issue for HSI...something that has plagued DSL from the beginning. The fiber networks are passive optical networks (PON) and require no electronics outside of the central office other than the optical network terminal (ONT) at the subscriber's location. For that reason, they are much more reliable and resilient relative to things like power outages. Yes, the end user needs to provide UPS or generator to maintain service, but unlike Cable and hybrid fiber/copper infrastructure, power problems don't bring the network down for consumers. And yes..."phone" service isn't the goal here, although it can be a benefit for folks who still want it. It's all about Internet access and content distribution. VZ has even now moved away from pushing land lines in bundles with their current "buy what you want" mix and match pricing. For the record, I use VZ for my Internet service (currently 400/400) but am using Hulu Plus LiveTV for content.

[Keith Outten]

I expect that not one of you have a guaranteed "Certified Information Rate" (CIR). You purchase bandwidth at a variety of speeds but the speed is not guaranteed, you get what you get. When I owned Hampton Roads Online we had a direct commercial connection to a primary pipe with a guaranteed CIR that never slowed down. In those days it was expensive but it was the only choice for Internet Providers.

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with getting rid of the copper loop. We've pushed it about as far as it will go with all the various flavors of DSL. It would be foolish to put in new copper loops.

I expect we'll see the fiber infrastructure pushed in a similar manner eventually. People are developing QAM for optical communications that will allow fiber to carry higher data rates than it can today.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

Keith, you're absolutely correct that consumer grade service isn't guaranteed and that "up to" phrase is very much part of the offer language. But what's troubling is that so many can't get any kind of "high speed" service in so much of our great country. That affects education, gainful employment and quality access to information since so much of the world we live in is dependent on access at this point.

[Ronald Blue]

Keith, you're absolutely correct that consumer grade service isn't guaranteed and that "up to" phrase is very much part of the offer language. But what's troubling is that so many can't get any kind of "high speed" service in so much of our great country. That affects education, gainful employment and quality access to information since so much of the world we live in is dependent on access at this point.

But how much are you willing to shoulder for those in low density population areas to have high speed internet? It takes a large investment to build a network. I have no idea how much but it's always based on enough subscribers to generate revenue flow on the positive side. If they can create the technology to funnel it through the electrical service that would be a great solution. They have some ability here because my electric meter has been read remotely for quite a few years now. We might never see high speed for all in our life time.

[Jim Becker]

That's a good question, Ronald...but ultimately, the answer is what is best for the people in our society and country and how we are able to compete with the rest of the world.

BTW, the technology already exists to travel Internet traffic via power systems. But it's not very efficient and has a level of complexity that's served as a barrier to adoption. Your electrical meter (and gas meter if that applies) usually has an RF radio that transmits to collection points spaced on the infrastructure...if you look carefully, you'll see the receivers on the poles. That's low level, low bandwidth transmission of simple data, however.