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Thread: $5k to start my woodshop

  1. #46
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    May 2014
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    Art if you would be willing to expand your distance radius for used tools that might help with shortening the waiting period.I have driven 13 hours one way for my best deal to date. Most of my machines have come from Calgary and the surrounding area which is 3-4 hours away(one way) for me.

  2. #47
    If your first purchase is a $3000 saw I bet you end up spending way over $5000, in time.

    My advice would be to do the dust collection system and some shelves and benches and then take it one or two tools at a time, when you need it(them) and then do the same research you did for the saw and then get the best one you can with an eye for the future.

    You can build furniture with $500 worth of hand tools (they did for centuries) so the buy you make will be to solve a problem with a high end solution and when that happens pull the trigger.

  3. #48
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    Apr 2018
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    Cambridge Vermont
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    Just my opinion but it seams like insurance companies are pushing businesses to upgrade their PM66 style cabinet saws to either the sawstop style or at least a saw with a Riving knife. I'm seeing well used but very much still lots of life left in them saws sell for under $200 at auction. It's not going to look as nice as the one a hobbyist bought and treated like his child but when money is tight beauty should be what you are making not how your tooling looks. For example my PM66 cost me a little under $250 for the saw with a Bosch router in the side table, the 15% buyers fee, Mass sales tax, and the gas to drive 150 miles each way to get it. The 3hp single phase Baldor on it is worth about that much. The hardest part about finding used equipment is figuring out where to look.

  4. #49
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    Nov 2006
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    Atlanta
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    462
    That is a machine that could really bite you in the rear. Im guessing support is next to nill. That machine is probably from the 80s of early 90s. I remember some of the crappier SCM table saws having that slider carriage with the bar. I would be so so worried about electrics in that machine.
    Well, you might be surprised. Andy Andreou has been in business since the 70's. The maker of that machine is Rojek if I'm not mistaken, and they are still around too; and selling pretty much that machine. Electrics might be dodgy on any machine. Try and find an old unisaw starter today ! The good news is these aren't computers or A/V electronics that have complex controllers and can't be worked on at home. They are typically a selector switch, an on/off switch, and one or more kill switches. Pretty basic stuff that's easily fixed even if the orig. part isn't readily available.

    You might just as well worry about any tool that is electrically powered. It might fail.

    The
    slider carriage with the bar
    is not as good as some other designs, but it works. And is better than say Robland's x31. If you can choose without penalty, fine. Otherwise, I wouldn't fret.

    More of an issue for Scott (or anyone) is he may not have the skill, desire, or time to evaluate used machinery.

    I agree that Sawstop is a tremendous insurance policy but........ there is NO SUBISTUTE for proper training and skill. I would not tell my kids about the braking feature at all and teach them how to properly use a tablesaw safely and to have a healthy respect for it and other tools. Relying on sawstop could lead to trouble down the road if they use another saw and have developed questionable habits or technique. Show em pics or video of people without digits or limbs because of machine accidents. A drill press or even a utility knife can punch one's ticket for a long nite in the ER and months of reheab if you fall asleep at the wheel.

  5. #50
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    I would not drive 13 hours, one way, if the saw were free. Travel costs money and I value my time more than that as well. Some people enjoy the hunt, even though the price isn't particularly favorable when you include expenses. I don't. I managed to get good deals on a used drum sander and a used hybrid table saw but both of those were close by.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    Art if you would be willing to expand your distance radius for used tools that might help with shortening the waiting period.I have driven 13 hours one way for my best deal to date. Most of my machines have come from Calgary and the surrounding area which is 3-4 hours away(one way) for me.
    Last edited by Art Mann; 04-10-2020 at 6:17 PM.

  6. #51
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    May 2014
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    Art on that trip,I bought a next to new Felder k700s sliding saw and a Felder edge bander. Including expenses I saved about $25000 . So do you still think that was a waste of my time ?

  7. #52
    I've been making sawdust for over 30 years and owned several table saws before getting a PCS a little over a year ago. I've never needed a band aid because of a table saw. But I've paid some hefty medical bills when I worked too long and used poor judgement and let a tool bite me. It is very important to use proper technique but also important to quit when you are tired and a PCS is cheap compared to medical bills.

    I got rid of my bandsaw when I moved to this house in 2013 and will probably replace it this year. I've built a bunch of stuff without one. It is obviously not high on my list but it depends on what you need to do. A Bosch jig saw lets me make curved cuts. A Bosch DEVS 1250 is a good sander for about half what Festool gets. I like my domino XL but I used a plunge router to make mortises that were as nice as the domino makes, it just took a little more time.

    A use a little lunchbox planner I got for $100 from a guy at church that thought it didn't work. The blades just needed sharpened. I might upgrade to a DeWalt but I also may not. My old Ryobi AP-10 does a decent job and the price was certainly right. I would get the planner before the jointer. It is not the way you are supposed to prepare stock but it works to just plane both faces and then straighten an edge with a table saw, circular saw with guide or, my favorite, a track saw.

    You will struggle to find space, I believe, for a PCS with a 52 inch fence. And even with it some cuts will be out of it's range. I use a 36 inch PCS PLUS a DeWalt track saw. I have the 106, 59, and 44 inch tracks. I know I could do some things quicker with different equipment but my shop is only 14x28 so I am limited on space and my table saw/track saw combination lets me build anything I need to build. I give myself glue up ready edges with the track saw. Anybody who thinks they are inaccurate just does not know how to use it. But that same thing can be said of many tools.

    With your budget, I would buy a mid sized plunge/fixed base router combo (if you don't have one), a planner, a track saw and save the rest for clamps and other things you will have to have. But the other Jim's advice of buying what you need for what you want to build is good. That's pretty much what I did until my kids were grown and I had a little more money.

    We all have our pet peeves but I think spending money on router tables is a terrible waste. I have never even bought a plate. My router table has a home made lift that works great. The top is a sink cut out backed with plywood and edged with maple. The top tilts up for bit changes. You could have a router table by just poking a hole in the extension wing of the PCS and screwing a fixed base for a router to the underside. A board clamped to the PCS fence will work or you could make one. If I was doing this for a living I would do a lot differently but for a hobby shop, a router table to me is something you make, not something you buy.
    Last edited by Jim Dwight; 04-10-2020 at 8:14 PM.

  8. #53
    Unless you want to invest in a Euro-style slider, which is a whole other argument (plenty of posts on slider vs standard style saw) I think your choice of a sawstop is a good one. I started in my 2-car garage workshop with a 1.75hp sawstop. When I finally upgraded the electrical service in the garage, I purchased the 3hp motor and upgraded my saw. This was about 5 years ago and since then I have added the industrial-sized floating dust collector guard and the folding extension table. Very happy with both. +1 on dust collection. I went way overkill when I finally decided to purchased a real dust collector (as opposed to a shop vac)..ended up with the a 5hp cyclone - best thing I ever bought (after the table saw). Other than table saw and dust collector, my Hammer 16" jointer-planer combo unit is the most often used tool in the shop. I started with a 6" jointer, which I outgrew in about 2 weeks. Unless someone gives one for free, I would not purchase a 6" jointer. Hold out for at least an 8". If you can swing it, a 16" jointer-planer combo on wheels is a great way to go. Lets see...next most commonly used tool for me is the router table. You can make one yourself or purchase one - depends on the budget. Technically you can use the same router for handheld use and in the router table, but on practical purposes this is a pain to keep switching. Next is the bandsaw. Some people on here swear their bandsaw cuts as good as a table saw. Not mine. But it does the job. Then a drill press - small models, like a 14" is sufficient and can be purchased used quite cheap. So in my opinion these are the basic stationary tools - in no particular order - that I use most often...table saw, dust collector, router/router table, jointer-planer, bandsaw, drill press. Then a smattering of hand tools like measuring/marking tools, sanders, drill/driver, hammer, chisels, maybe couple of hand planes, circular saw for breaking down sheet goods. Shop vac to hook up to the small handheld tools.

    All my tools are mounted on mobile bases so we can park cars in the garage while it is not in "wood shop" mode.

    After you acquire all this stuff, the next thing to add would likely involve some kind of joinery. Maybe a Festool Domino joiner, Lamello joiner, pantorouter, router boss or wood rat, dovetail jig, dedicated mortiser, table saw tenoning jig, etc...

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Winter View Post
    Used will definitely be my first avenue of choice! I live in Lancaster, PA so there is a pretty high woodworking population here.
    I am a few hours from Lancaster in NJ and I have yet to see too much good used equipment at a decent savings here. Most people are trying to sell for 85-90% of new, which just isn't worth the risk for me. For example, i just saw a JET drum sander posted for $1000. Sure they are tossing in some sandpaper, but I can get it new on sale right now for $999.. go figure.

    Where are you looking for equipment?

  10. #55
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    Dec 2013
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    Central New Jersey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    For now: Bandsaw (big as you can afford), jointer, and planer. You may not need a table saw at all but if you do, a contractor saw should be fine. A big table saw probably won't be necessary. I would not over-think the dust collection. Any single-bagger should get you by. Hope this helps,

    Erik
    I would have to both agree and disagree... yes, you can use a bandsaw to make straight cuts but you are limited in many aspects when trying to rip wider boards or some panels and table surface doesn't give you the same width for cross-cutting, and forget about ripping a bevel with easy. Table saws are a must if building furniture for home with any level of efficiency and 100% repeatable parts. I do agree that a good contractor saw can be fine. I've been using mine for 15 years and have built a lot with it, however I have somewhat outgrown in and really do want a cabinet saw at this point. If I was to go back 15 years and spend the extra money back than for years of having a cabinet saw, i'd do it in a heart beat. There is also no 2nd to safety, and a SawStop has that - it's a no brainier. I just did a quick build on SawStop's site, the contractor saw with 36" fence, cast iron wing upgrade and a mobile base is just shy of 2400. A PCS with the same fence and a mobile base is shut shy of 2900. For the $500, it's a no brainer to go for the PCS.

  11. #56
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    Sep 2006
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    Deep South
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    My wife goes to a store advertising sale prices and buys a bunch of stuff she doesn't need. She comes home and brags about how much money she saved. Whether it was a waste of your time depends on how badly you needed the equipment. It would not have been worth it to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    Art on that trip,I bought a next to new Felder k700s sliding saw and a Felder edge bander. Including expenses I saved about $25000 . So do you still think that was a waste of my time ?

  12. #57
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    May 2014
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    Alberta
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    Art I am running out of patience here. You complained that you have been waiting for 15 years looking for a cabinet saw within 50 miles of home. If you do not want to listen to someone trying to legitimately help you ,just stick with your winning formula and keep waiting. I did need that saw and I did save that much. And yes it is worth it.

  13. #58
    Kind of interesting about all of the options, fun read.

    I have had a shop for as long as I've had a house. It started with little things like a cordless drill, ROS and shop vacuum. I've had lots in the years since, including Felder and Aggazzani. The ones that still get used the most are an impact driver, ROS and vacuum. I've also lost a large part of my hearing, so I can't hear my three daughters as well.

    Get a quiet vacuum and put a Dust deputy or the like on it. I have gone through all sorts of tools and upgraded lots of times. Of all my power tools, I use the DC the most. Every time I turn on the jointer, planer, table saw, bandsaw. I mounted it on the ceiling with a cyclone to empty easily. I love my SS, but save your money on the upgrades and just get the 3hp with a 36 fence and mobile base to start.

    Jim is right about the project based approach. I have done 2 kitchens and so a track saw and pocket hole jig were important. The other thing I use all the time is a miter saw. That was the 4th tool I ever bought and it still gets used on just about every project, to cut down the boards to length. I actually use my 7.5" SCMS Milwaukee as much as my 12" Bosch. I throw it up on saw horses in the driveway, along with the sheet goods to break down, so they fit in the garage. 5th tool was a router. Now I have 5 or 6 of them.

    With a one car garage, save up and get a 12" J/P combo on wheels for your furniture. I have the HH Jet. That gets used a lot, too.
    Last edited by Rod Wolfy; 04-12-2020 at 1:03 AM.

  14. #59
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    Deep South
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    Time and time again, I read advice on this forum from people who live in areas where used equipment is available at fair prices. I am making the very real and meaningful point that used equipment is not always a practical alternative. I bought a Grizzly hybrid saw used about a year ago. It was the first practical alternative that I saw in more than 15 years of searching. It was not what I wanted but it was an upgrade from my contractor saw. It is not practical to drive 13 hours each way to buy a simple cabinet saw. I will remind you that that was the subject of the original discussion - not some industrial grade saw that cost more than every piece of equipment in my shop put together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kees View Post
    Art I am running out of patience here. You complained that you have been waiting for 15 years looking for a cabinet saw within 50 miles of home. If you do not want to listen to someone trying to legitimately help you ,just stick with your winning formula and keep waiting. I did need that saw and I did save that much. And yes it is worth it.

  15. #60
    Everybody is a little bit different. How much they need the tool
    varies. Level of quality desired varies. Budget varies. Available time to both search for and retrieve used equipment varies. I could go on...

    I live in a small town in the mountains (~30-40k people) that is pretty dry for quality used woodworking equipment. If I only looked within a 50 mile radius for the things I’ve searched for and drug home from Craigslist or online classifieds, I wouldn’t have most of the tools I proudly own that have all been great deals.

    It usually takes a certain patience, tenacity, and persistence to succeed at scoring solid deals on quality used tools. Not everyone wants to deal with it, and I get that, but to equate a professional woodworker’s successful purchase of some nice, high level tooling for a good deal even though it wasn’t local to your wife spending extraneous money on a retail therapy outing is apple to oranges.

    I have found that my own budget for woodworking tools was stretched by a factor of at least 5:1 by being on a constant prowl on various websites for used machines that were both desirable/needed and if not a “great deal”, at least worthy of the asking price. None of my machines were bought new, mostly out of trying to get the most out of my Benjamin’s. Conversely, there’s a lot of used junk out there to wade through that’s not worth 1/2 of the asking price...

    I’ve driven up to 10 hrs (one way) for tools that were both good deals and that I needed at the time. I don’t love doing it, but it’s usually not terrible and pretty much always worth the time once it’s done.

    There’s also something to be said for having some coin set aside and watching what becomes available and jumping on good deals / desirable machines when they become available even if you don’t exactly need it at the time. This applies more to upgrades and once you have a good idea of the actual tooling you need in your shop to do the work you do, but if you’re picky about your machines, this approach can work with some patience and diligence.
    Last edited by Phillip Mitchell; 04-12-2020 at 9:02 PM.
    That's just like, your opinion, man.

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