Covid, why wash your hands?

[Benjimin Young]

Apologies, it seems I may have offended a few and this was not the intent.
I respect this forum and the opinions of many of the people in the forum. There was no intent to mis-lead, hence my disclaimer at he beginning of the post, "but I cannot confirm that". There was however an intent to stimulate thought and get your input to my comment that "some of it makes sense, at least to me".
Thanks to John for the Snopes site, an interesting site, thanks to Roger, I had to look up bogosity in my Funk and Wagnels, and thanks to all for reading and providing input.
Stay safe, healthy and sane in these difficult times.

[Steve Demuth]

The way it works is that as soon as the virus gets into the wet body tissue the outer layer breaks down and the RNA strand is free to move into a likely looking cell and take over from the existing DNA. Just like a bird hatching as soon as it starts to hatch the eggshell is just in the way.
Bil lD

No, that is not how it works. The virus cannot infect a cell just by dissolving and loosing RNA into the extracellular environment. An intact virus particle binds to an antigen on a cell surface, which breaks the cell membrane and the viral coat, allowing the two to merge, and the internal contents of the virion - the RNA - is thus transported into the cell. The RNA is then translated by the cells mitochondria into a factory for producing more viral RNA and proteins.

So, you need intact viral particles, not loose RNA to start an infection. What makes SARS-CoV2 so easy to spread is that it has evolved a very effective binding protein for antigens expressed by human lung cells.

[Wade Lippman]

One of my issues with this article is...

25°C (77°F) water supposedly helps melt the virus' fat layer. How would it not then melt in the body, which is 37°C (98.6°F)?

There are all different kinds of fat. Only difference between a fat and an oil is whether or not it is solid at room temperature. But in the context of viruses, that is not necessarily meaningful.

[Wade Lippman]

Alcohol above 85% will not bother the virus if it is like other viruses. The high concentration alcohol will cause it to go into a defense mode and it can "live" in pure alcohol for several years. Around 65% alcohol it does not activate the defenses and it dies. It can "live' in a freezer for two years or more. No idea about refridgerator temperatures and survivability.
Bill D.

Can you document that? It is hard to believe that a virus has a defense mode. It does nothing except inject RNA. Otherwise it is inert.

[Wade Lippman]

As long as it is stuck to a porous surface, it is inert and will disintegrate in 3 hours (cloth and porous surfaces)

I just read that a mask will have identifiable viruses for up to 7 days if not disinfected. I have doubts about that, but also about 3 hours.
I am rotating 3 masks, leaving each to age for maybe 5 days, as I don't use one daily. I am hoping that will work out.

[Brice Rogers]

There are a lot of hand sanitizers out there that are 60% alcohol. I once googled, why don't we use higher percentage alcohols? It said that it dries to quickly and that the lower alcohol content stayed around longer and was more effective than say 70, 80 or 90% alcohol.

But my suspicion is that 65% alcohol and 60% alcohol aren't really much different. I can't imagine that there is anything magical with that 5% difference. But perhaps one works just a little bit better or a little faster.

BTW, if you can buy Ever Clear alcohol (three common concentrations: 120 proof, 151 proof and 191 proof), it is actually a vodka. Some states outlaw it. Some states restrict it ( 191 proof is not available in Ca.) . In some states you can get the full strength 191 proof (about 95% ethanol alcohol). But I'm starting to see more availability at not-outrageous prices for isopropyl alcohol on ebay.

[Bohdan Drozdowskyj]

Can you document that? It is hard to believe that a virus has a defense mode. It does nothing except inject RNA. Otherwise it is inert.

The wet alcohol enters the virus and causes the insides to harden and slowly disintegrate. If you hit it with pure alcohol the outer later is instantly hardened and this prevents the entry of more alcohol into the virus protecting it and it remains viable.

Got this from some scientific report but I can't remember which.

[Frank Pratt]

Alcohol above 85% will not bother the virus if it is like other viruses. The high concentration alcohol will cause it to go into a defense mode and it can "live" in pure alcohol for several years.Bill D.

????? That doesn't sound right at all. References for this? I'm not saying it's wrong, but it certainly doesn't pass the smell test.

People, please let's not be posting stuff that isn't factual. There's been plenty of that just in this thread.

[Wade Lippman]

The wet alcohol enters the virus and causes the insides to harden and slowly disintegrate. If you hit it with pure alcohol the outer later is instantly hardened and this prevents the entry of more alcohol into the virus protecting it and it remains viable.

Got this from some scientific report but I can't remember which.

Solutions of 70% alcohol should be left on surfaces for 30 seconds (including cellphones) to ensure they will kill viruses. Pure (100%) alcohol evaporates too quickly for such use. From WebMD

Soap contains fat-like substances known as amphiphiles, some of which are structurally very similar to the lipids in the virus membrane. The soap molecules “compete” with the lipids in the virus membrane. This is more or less how soap also removes normal dirt from the skin.
The soap not only loosens the “glue” between the virus and the skin but also the Velcro-like interactions that hold the proteins, lipids and RNA in the virus together.
Alcohol-based products, which pretty much includes all “disinfectant” products, contain a high-percentage alcohol solution (typically 60-80% ethanol) and kill viruses in a similar fashion From the CDC

Nowhere does it say that 100% alcohol doesn't work; only that it evaporates too rapidly to be practical. So I think it is fair to say that your scientific report is questionable.

[John K Jordan]

...if I come in contact with a virus carrying glob of moisture say on a grocery cart handle while grocery shopping for example, the most likely way of me being infected by that speck of virus is from contacting my eyes, mouth or nose. If the speck of virus survives the trip home and is still on my hands when I get into the house, carefully, thoroughly washing my hands should remove it and wash it down the drain removing it's presence and danger. The key is in the thorough washing technique to remove it.
...

Call me paranoid, but after leaving the store I'm always concerned about what I might touch before I get to the hand-washing - the credit card, the car door handle, the button to open the hatchback, the keys and doorknobs at the house. I put the credit card in my shirt pocket before going into the store to avoid touching my wallet. Our vehicles and house are keyless entry. I carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer in my back pocket anytime I'm out and use it often. Then the hand washing with soap at home.

I didn't read the whole thread so this may have been mentioned, but I find the mask and gloves are a good reminder that stops me from otherwise touching my face without thinking.

JKJ

[carey mitchell]

The best info I have come across about alcohol is that <60% is ineffective in dissolving the fatty layer, and any that is much >70% causes the layer to harden.

When washing hands in the shop I use Simple Green, which really does a good job on oily materials. The wife would probably frown upon it upstairs.

I've never heard peroxide called "oxidized water," but I suppose it would be true. That term, however, is confusing to most. There are a number of other points in the article that are not exactly correct; that's the problem with anecdotal info.

[Myk Rian]

The reason Dawn is suggested: it's a grease cutter. The Covid-19 virus is a Protein. Not a living organism. It is protected by a layer of fat. Dawn washes the fat from it, the Protein shrivels away.

[Ronald Blue]

[QUOTE=carey mitchell;3010506]The best info I have come across about alcohol is that <60% is ineffective in dissolving the fatty layer, and any that is much >70% causes the layer to harden.

When washing hands in the shop I use Simple Green, which really does a good job on oily materials. The wife would probably frown upon it upstairs.


The CDC says use at least 60% alcohol content hand sanitizer. Nowhere does it say if it's stronger it doesn't work. Do you have documented facts to prove your assertion that 70% has the opposite effect? Use hand sanitizer if hand washing isn't an option. There is nothing other than using soap along with water stated in their recommendations. They state there is no documented advantage to using antibacterial soap. Just use soap and water for a minimum of 20 seconds. Soap because it helps break down dirt and oils and water because it washes the dislodged particles away.

[Gustav Gabor]

I wonder if lacquer thinner would possibly be effective against this virus?
Seems to kill everything else, but probably not Covid 19.
Since I can't find hand sanitizer anywhere, and I happen to have over 100 liters of lacquer thinner in the spray booth, it'd be awesome if it could work!!

[Frank Pratt]

I wonder if lacquer thinner would possibly be effective against this virus?
Seems to kill everything else, but probably not Covid 19.
Since I can't find hand sanitizer anywhere, and I happen to have over 100 liters of lacquer thinner in the spray booth, it'd be awesome if it could work!!

Kinda hard on the skin though.