Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: Help with Dust Collector - New Shop

  1. #1

    Help with Dust Collector - New Shop

    As many of you know, I am a new woodworker, retired and pretty ugly. I feel strongly about dust collection because I value my lungs and health. However, my resources ($$$) are not unlimited.

    Details:
    My shop is a two car garage, 30 x 30. 9 foot ceilings. I have 100 amps available. I don’t have many power tools yet and don’t plan on alot. I just purchased a Hammer k3 table saw, and plan on building cabinets and various things around the house. This will be my primary tool. Don’t think I’ll ever get a lathe. Possibly a planer, but don’t know.

    My budget is about $1500 for the DC itself.
    I plan on building a small closet in the shop mainly for noise suppression from the dc, and to give it a permanent home.

    Question: If I vent outside, won’t that pull cold/hot air into the shop? I live in North Georgia mountains and don’t relish a cold breeze inside in the winter.

    I've seen many, many different brands/styles out there. It gets confusing. I really don’t want to be moving the unit around constantly, thus the closet.

    I was thinking of a grizzly 2hp cyclone, but again sooooo many models and brands. I know many will recommend Oneida, Clear Vue and others, but again my budget is being stretched and the divorce cost would have to be factored in.

    I’m sure more questions will follow, but I hope this gets me started.
    bob

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,492
    Blog Entries
    1
    I have the Grizzly 2HP cyclone model G0440. It does a decent job but, I always chastise myself for not shoe-horining a 3HP into the shop. The physical dimensions drove my choice in my more ignorant years. Venting outside is nirvana as you can possibly skip the separator which means you can get more blower for your money. It will blast 100's of cubic feet of conditioned air out of your shop so your geographical location will make that a smart or a dumb move.

    If you need to vent your exhaust back into your breathing air, you want a cyclone and you want good filtration. No one wants to be breathing particles the size of spider web, cement dust or tobacco smoke.

    microns.JPG

    The cyclone separates the bulk of the spoil so that you do not have to clean your filter often. The recent trend of short-cone cyclones carry a lot of reviews of sub-optimal separation and filter cleaning blues. Your budget will make it hard for you to avoid these short-cone format machines. As always, I urge people to do the best they can because something is better than nothing when it comes to our health. Where the budget versus performance lines cross to your disadvantage is when poor filtration turns your 'dust collector' into a 'dust broadcast system'.

    2m doesn't cut it.JPG

    We sometimes need to trade off airflow performance to get better filtration. That is, I would rather have an 800 CFM unit that trapped down to .3 microns than a 2000 CFM unit that let 2 micron particles blast back into my breathing air. Good luck on your journey and keep your health the primary focus of your DC search.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 04-04-2020 at 11:22 AM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    I doubt that in Georgia you will have a problem. I have been venting outside my shop for decades, in Virginia our temperature range is close to yours. Note that my DC is only 1.5 hp and it is very efficient because there are no bags or filters. If you plan to exhaust outside you probably should not consider a very large DC. Because I operate both a Laser Engraver and and a CNC Router my DC system is probably operating more hours per week than most, when I am active.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    280
    Hi Bob,
    i have no knowledge of venting outside as I was concerned about the cold air and also noise. I went with a HEPA filter equipped 2hp cyclone and have been very pleased with the reduction in dust in my shop. I am still rolling it around since I haven’t gotten a couple tools on my list yet and don’t want to run fixed plumbing until I get them in place. With only a single car garage, I need to be pretty careful with tool acquisition and layout.
    A Hammer Jointer/planer would be a nice match with your saw.
    Last edited by David Publicover; 04-04-2020 at 11:37 AM. Reason: hit submit by mistake!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten View Post
    I doubt that in Georgia you will have a problem. I have been venting outside my shop for decades, in Virginia our temperature range is close to yours. Note that my DC is only 1.5 hp and it is very efficient because there are no bags or filters. If you plan to exhaust outside you probably should not consider a very large DC. Because I operate both a Laser Engraver and and a CNC Router my DC system is probably operating more hours per week than most, when I am active.
    Keith, why not the same size if I’m venting outside?
    bob

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Lebanon, TN
    Posts
    1,719
    Looking at the other tools, your are purchasing in other threads, I wouldn't skimp on the DC budget. To me it's as important as nearly any other tool in the shop, plus it gets used every time one of those other tools is turned on.

    I'd go for the Clearview CV1800 as a minimum.

    I didn't do this when I set up shop a few years ago, I treated the DC as the runt of the litter, which I don't fully regret, as my current DC is adequate, but now wish I'd gone a little higher in my budget and bought something with a bit better capacity.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    El Dorado Hills, CA, USA
    Posts
    208
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hardin View Post
    Keith, why not the same size if I’m venting outside?
    bob
    Bob, if you vent outside, you don't need to filter the volume of air that the DC is pushing, so the DC will run more efficiently. Looked at the other way, the more efficient your filtering is, the harder your DC motor has to work.

    Personally I waited about 6 months from starting my shop before I dealt with the DC, because it's a ton of research and planning that you'd really rather only do once, and do right. My budget went up about 4x in that 6 months, as I realized what I was going to do. In the meantime, a shop vac was my "solution".

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    10,304
    As I see it, one of the big benefits of a 3 hp DC is the ability to suck through long ducts, like you might need to get from one corner of your 30x30 shop to the other. If you are willing to move the DC, you can use a shorter duct, and because of that you can use a smaller DC. The smaller DC also costs less. So there's your trade-off for the same performance at the tool: cost versus convenience. If you're budget-constrained, that's a good argument for moving the DC.

    ..and while you're thinking about budget trade-offs, remember to add in the cost of a bunch of fixed ducting. That stuff is not cheap...
    Last edited by Jamie Buxton; 04-04-2020 at 12:18 PM.

  9. #9
    There are definitely many different opinions on DCs. Bill Pentz has a good website with lots of useful data. The issue I have with Bill is you have to look hard to find out he has health issues with normal household air. So he is a big proponent of the Clearview so he can get the air in his workshop really clean. Cleaner than outside air and cleaner than the air probably is in my house. That is a safe way to go and last I looked, the Clearview was relatively inexpensive for a 5hp system.

    I like the much more limited postings of Matthias Wandel (may have messed up his name). I do not agree with his choice of good bag filters, however, my experience with them was not that good. But he has a piece by a physician explaining that our bodies are made to deal with dust. If you do not have issues when you go outside and it is a bit dusty, then I think this school of thought has a lot of merit. It supports use of a much smaller DC. There are some who believe, however, that repeated exposures to dust increases sensitivity.

    If you plan to spend 1500 on dust collection, I would split that as about 500 for piping and hoses and 1000 for the DC. That is crude but it is easy to under estimate the cost of all the gates, piping, connectors, and hoses you need.

    I use a 2hp Harbor Freight DC pulling through an Oneida Super Dust Deputy cyclone and discharging outside. That DC is less than $200. Add the cyclone and you are still under $500. I run 5 inch snaplock pipe from home depot, not the thin stuff Lowes has. My shop is only 14x24, however. I get good collection of chips, I need to get a Dylos and see how it is doing with fine dust. I am hoping to keep my level out of the high Dylos category for fine dust. If I need to, I will add a Rikon impeller to the HF to improve it's performance. I am in Lexington SC, near Columbia. I essentially do not heat or cool my shop. If it is really cold, I run a little space heater some. If I get hot, I turn on a box fan (or go back in the AC). I don't notice any draft when the DC is on but I normally have a door open. In the summer, I have a garage door open on one end and a normal door on the other. The DC exhaust is at least 8 feet away from the back door of the shop but I am interested to see if my dust level goes up with the door open and the DC running. That is one of the many things I can measure with a Dylos.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Corvallis, Oregon
    Posts
    11
    I have a shop with the 3 hp Oneida central cyclone dust collector. I suggest venting directly outside after most of the dust has been deposited in the cyclone drum. That is not how I did it, and still do. My system puts the dust through the cyclone and then through an in-shop air filter. The reason I would not do this a second time is that the percentage of time in a shop that the central vac will be operating is typically very small. Your annual heat (or air conditioning) loss will be small to moderate. But, you will gain floor space, have less interior noise, save money on buying the big indoor air filters, and have a simpler overall installation. Naturally there are other pros and cons, but these are my thoughts after many years of dust collection.
    Last edited by Marvin McConoughey; 04-04-2020 at 1:23 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Black Oak Ark.
    Posts
    253
    Is $1500 the the total DC budget ? Even 6" sewer/drain PVC and the fittings will cost plenty . Even more if you go metal . I'll bet most of the guys here will say -" do it right the first time " , so do your research . Ducting can eat up your budget quickly . I went with a shop built cyclone , and its doing fine for me . But I'd still love a ClearVue or the Oneida V-system 3000 . You didn't mess around on the table saw decision , so I anticipate what you choose . Congratulations on retirement and the new shop .

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Bob, there are a number of critical components in a dust collection system, and they must integrate. Like a chain, it will break at a weak link ... and each of the components can become the weak link.

    Components include: horse power, impeller size, pipe/hose type, length of run, diameter, filtration.

    Sucking with a 5 hp motor but using a small impeller will be very inefficient. It will not move much air. A lower power machine will move less air still. Ideally, one wants at least 3-5 hp and a large diameter impeller.

    Now, unless you have at least 6” smooth-walled piping, the air will again be throttled. 4” does not hack it. 8” is better for the main feed. Concertina hoses are inefficient as they slow the air movement.

    Anything in the path slows down the air, including filters. That is why venting outside is best.

    Now, these are ideals, and most of us have not reached these goals. I have an underpowered sytem - which means I need to start from scratch. However, I do a lot of work with hand tools as well, and I open a double garage door to ventilate. Plus I use a respirator when working with power machines.

    If I was spending $1500, I’d start with the a 3hp DC with a large impeller. Get the best I can, and then put it aside until I could afford the piping. It’s another large investment - don’t take it for granted. Do it right. Do it once. I wish I knew this stuff 25 years ago.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    22,492
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hardin View Post
    Keith, why not the same size if I’m venting outside?
    bob

    I'll butt in and Keith can correct me if I'm not talking about what he is talking about . . . You need to supply make-up air for any air that is being pushed out of the shop. A 2HP blower can move 1500 CFM. If you put a separator in the path like a 2HP cyclone you may only get 1000 CFM. The point being that without the things in the path that reduce your throughput; cyclone, filter, mufflers, you get a lot more bang from a smaller blower.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Lancaster, Ohio
    Posts
    1,346
    I am still improving on my dust collection system and will be for some time to come.
    To me IF you are dead set on installing the dust collector in a closet then get the piping done right the first time. Doesn't have to be high end snap lock spiral pipe. Then get the best dust collector you can afford and vent it outside IF able(I can't where I live). Upgrade as you can spend the money
    More important to me is a good air filter running all the time inside the shop, I have a used furnace blower unit under my work bench that is drawing thru 2 24x24x18 bag filters with 24x24x2 prefilters. Change the pre filters 2x a year and the bags have been changed once after 10 years. The Magnehelic gauge did not indicate it was time, I had a spare set and changed them. This fan runs for weeks at a time, not just when I am in the shop. No idea what the bags cost as they were given to me years ago.
    Good luck
    Ron

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    549
    Hi Bob,
    I have a G0440 2hp cyclone for my hobby shop and it has worked well for me. Shop is 30 X 35 and main run is 24' with 7" snaplock from 7" impeller port and 6" laterals @ 15' and 20'. 4" drops to 4" flex to machines. I have a 20" planer and do lots of rough milling and have no problem evacuating chips. 12" jointer is at the far end of the laterals and no problem there either. The DC is in an attached shed and I was able to fit a 55 gal. drum beneath to catch the chips. I welded axles and used old lawnmower wheels to easily roll the barrel out to the chip pile. I leave the shed window open a bit to vent outside. PNW weather isn't an issue with heat loss. I let friends use the shop and most are building slab tables etc. and lots of sanding huge surfaces with ROS's and belt sanders. Lots of dust!! Upstairs wood storage space is 20'X30' with an open stair, and when looking for that perfect piece of sequestered(quarantined??) mahogany in the rafters a I saw that there was ~~3/8"s+ of very fine dust on all the surfaces. This is 15-20' from the stair opening and I was amazed at the amount of particulates that drifted that far(and high).

    So:

    I would suggest the 2hp is plenty of CFM, short cyclone--mobile unit?-- may work if height an issue, enclosed with outside venting works, design easy chip removal system(gets to be a chore if doing lots of milling), and invest in a fine dust DC system for hand power tools. I built my shop 20 years ago and didn't consider hand tool dust and was too cheap to step up to Festool, which seemed to be the only system out then. Thought it was only for pro's working in someone elses home. My shop is separate from the house so I don't have to "clean up" the space but my lovey bride has suggested that I "keep that #%*&@!#+d sawdust out of the house" when I track thru the kitchen. Good luck. Can send pics if helpful and I can figure out how to do it!! JCB

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •