Shapton 5000 Sigma 6000 and 13000

[Mark R Webster]

I suspect you have the earlier type since the ones I see listed are the darker yellow. I can PM Derek unless he is following.

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Ken. The 6000 Select IIs I am seeing advertised are yellow so maybe you got the earlier one. Thanks for doing some testing

[Tom M King]

Some of mine are Sigma Power, and some are Select II's, but I forget which is which. They're both really fast. All of mine, except for the 10k, that I bought used, came from Stuart at Tools from Japan. I have the 400, 1k, 2k, 3k, 6k (pink speckled), 10k, and 13k. I think the 13 was only available in Select II. I figured that they would all wear less if I had small steps, so each stone would have the least possible work to do, and liked them so much, that I decided to get them while I could.

Lee Valley sells the Select II.

My friend that goes to Japan did some shopping for me over there, but he found that the prices were no better than online, so I told him not to bother to bring anything back.

[Mark R Webster]

Interesting that the apparent supply for Sigma Powers seems to have dried up. I PMd Derek, hopefully he will reply. I also sent an email to the Sigma company in Japan, the web site is in Japanese, we'll see how that goes. I just asked if they still made the earlier version.

[Tony Shea]

Mark,

I believe they are Select II but could be wrong, I bought them from Stew a year or two before he went out of business. I'm not using the Shaptons.

I just like the results from natural stones better than from synthetic stones. BTW, because of this thread I just gave the Sigma stones a run. All my cutters are O1 or #1, or #2 White Paper steel. If you use A2 or other more modern steel I expect your opinion would vary or be different. The edge I get off the Ark stones and a oiled strop is as fast and maybe better (that could be because I use the Ark stones all the time and can do a better job of judging the edge/burr) than off the Sigma stones. I did an A&B with a Sorby chisel. Sharpened it on the Sigma 1K, 6K, and 13K and while I never test my cutters this time I did. After testing I sharpened on my normal oil stones followed by a couple or three pulls on an oiled strop and while subjective the chisel was easier to push after the oil stones, feeling the surface I could feel no difference but under a loupe the oils stone surface was smoother. Again all subjective but I've done this over the years and only JNats will leave a surface as good or better than my Surgical Black Ark. Of course YMMV and probably will.

ken

P.S. the 6K is pink and speckled

If I had to guess Ken you have the Sigma Power not the Select II's. The standard Sigma Powers that you have are preferable IMO. I only guess that these are the ones you have because you got them from Stu and I assume you picked up the 1K, 6K, 13K set he was selling for an amazing price. I kick myself to this day for not picking those up. Let me know if you ever want to part with them, they are stones I've been dying to test out to see if they are in fact better than my Shapton's.

Unfortunately after your post I might also be searching for a Black Arkansas as well.

[ken hatch]

If I had to guess Ken you have the Sigma Power not the Select II's. The standard Sigma Powers that you have are preferable IMO. I only guess that these are the ones you have because you got them from Stu and I assume you picked up the 1K, 6K, 13K set he was selling for an amazing price. I kick myself to this day for not picking those up. Let me know if you ever want to part with them, they are stones I've been dying to test out to see if they are in fact better than my Shapton's.

Unfortunately after your post I might also be searching for a Black Arkansas as well.

Tony,

Not all natural stones are equal, I went through a few Surgical Black and Translucent stones to find this one. That's the bad news, the good is it is a full 1" thick and I'll be dead, my grand kids will be dead and their grand kids will be dead and it still will not be worn out.

Pay the postage both ways and I'll let you try the Sigma stones. I don't think they are anything special but I'm not a fan of synthetic stones they could be the best thing ever.

ken

P.S. I guess I should say for honing and polishing, I love India stones for grinding.

[Derek Cohen]

I sent Mark this message, but it occurred to me that others would appreciate Stu's review ..


Sigma Power 'Select II' stones.


These special waterstones are purpose designed for shaping and sharpening High Speed Steel and also to cut faster in harder, tougher steels than any other stone available.

To accomplish this they are composed of abrasive and nothing more minimal binder. As there is minimal binder as is present in most all other waterstones, which means that these stones do break down a little more quickly than hard ceramic stones. In exchange for this apparent flaw, they cut significantly faster most any other commercially available waterstone on the market. Depending on the steel being sharpened, between 30-200% faster, which alleviates the dishing concern to such an extent that in most situations, it will not be noticeable. Simply put, they do their work before they have a chance to get out of flat.

While they are designed for very hard, tenacious and tough steels, they also cut more simple and softer steels at a rate that is difficult to describe. If you are used to waterstones that 'cut quickly', the Select II is on an entirely new plane of fast.

These stones do require some soaking, especially the lower grit stones, but perform best 'just damp' and after some slurry is generated which occurs very quickly. They are also virtually immune to clogging due to the abrasive breaking free of the stone so easily. Any possible clogging is removed almost as soon as it occurs.

Occasionally the term 'amazing' might be used for waterstones, but is only really appropriate with these. They truly are amazing.

Suitable for all known blade steels, including High Speed steel, Powdered Metal, Stainless Steels and all conventional blade and cutlery steels.

Available in #220, #1000, #3000, #6000 and #10000 grit, the remaining grits of #400, #1200 and #13000 being of a more conventional composition yet intended for the same purpose, to work with very hard steels effectively.


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Sigma Select II are also available from Dieter Schmid:

https://www.fine-tools.com/sigma.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks Derek!!

[David Eisenhauer]

Followup for Derek - Is your 6K stone the "pink speckled" one or the "dark yellow" one?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Tony,

Not all natural stones are equal, I went through a few Surgical Black and Translucent stones to find this one. That's the bad news, the good is it is a full 1" thick and I'll be dead, my grand kids will be dead and their grand kids will be dead and it still will not be worn out.

Pay the postage both ways and I'll let you try the Sigma stones. I don't think they are anything special but I'm not a fan of synthetic stones they could be the best thing ever.

ken

P.S. I guess I should say for honing and polishing, I love India stones for grinding.

My favorite natural stones are from Dan's Whetstones, and many who had trouble finding something workable tried a Dan's and was good to go. The good news about Dan's is that their finest stone is a Black, which is finer and cheaper than the translucent. The bad news is that it is not cheap.

I see that Derek added his two cents to this, so be sure to give that a good read (duh).

I considered replacing my Pro 5K but frankly, it does what I need with the steel that I use and it will take me a long to wear it out. I really like not having to soak my stones.

[Tom M King]

I don't soak the Sigma's, but do use them under running water. There is no time spent getting ready, other than putting whichever one I use on the stone holder, which is not tightened for any, turn the water on, and go to work. I have a dedicated sharpening sink now, and water runs out of the ground, all around here, so I'm not really wasting water.

edited to add: The only reason for soaking is so some stands on the surface. If the stone soaks it in, you have to put enough on it until it doesn't just soak it up. Soaking does that, but also, being supplied a constant supply on the surface, it doesn't matter if the stone is soaking it up, or not.

[Jonathan Elliott]

Only one i've ever been able to find since Stu closed.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japan-water...C/282674702555

[Mark R Webster]

Thanks I ordered one!

[Derek Cohen]

Followup for Derek - Is your 6K stone the "pink speckled" one or the "dark yellow" one?

David, it is dark yellow (second from left). Darker than the Shapton 1000, and lighter than the Sigma Sellect II 13000 (far left) ...



Regards from Perth

Derek