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Thread: I was walking my dog . .

  1. #1
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    I was walking my dog . .

    and the plastic garbage cans are lining the street for trash pick up.

    One had a Made in Mexico tag on it. At least it was made in this hemisphere.

  2. #2
    OMG you mean it ain’t made in Mericah.....

    Shame on us.

  3. #3
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    Imma thinking, hopefully, more stuff will be made in USA in the future after this virus mess.

    Bruce
    Epilog TT 35W, 2 LMI SE225CV's
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Volden View Post
    Imma thinking, hopefully, more stuff will be made in USA in the future after this virus mess.

    Bruce
    I hope so, however historically we have’s been willing to pay for it...Rod

  5. #5
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    If it was made in the USA it would have been garbage.

    See what I did there? ;-)

  6. #6
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    This has been an ongoing topic in my shop conversations with locals, customers, and vendors as of late with all the talk of closing the borders and states initiating border checks for people moving from hotspots to less-hot spots. Somehow in all those conversations it always seems to spin back to importing and bringing manufacturing and work back to the US and NA. The brutally hard part with that is how to you motivate a society of people (mainly speaking to the young people) to be willing to to go to work and cash a paycheck (albeit not a kings ransom) making product that the US/NA consumer is flatly unwilling to pay for? I dont see it happening.

    I just picked up close to $10K worth of hardwood from our hardwood supplier who has about 3 million board feet of material on the yard at any point in time. A million+ board feet of KD, and 2 million BF+ air drying or in the process of KD/surfacing. Like me he is in a rural area and trying to find young/old/novice/experienced help that is willing to drive a fork truck or do mill yard work, climb the ladder and get promotions and so on, for even a fairly reasonable hourly rate is virtually impossible. You float an add in the paper, 20 apply, 10 walk out instantly, wont take a drug test, 4 more will, and fail, 3 of the remainder make it to the end of the application process, 2 get hired, one shows up on day one, and doest come back on day two.

    You can argue that the answer is to pay more but we are talking a decent wage, close to home, no commute time, and a where you can likely work all the hours you want and more... not interested.

    Now the mill buys a house up the road, and hires a bunch of legal migrant workers. He says they show up early, want to stay late (even if they are off the clock), work their butts off, and you have to beat them off like flies to get them to go to the house. We are being handed our hats. I spoke with a drywall finisher recently and a brick mason who echo'd the same thing. The migrant drywall crew hangs 120 sheets a day compared to the domestic crew hanging 40. Same deal with bricks.

    Sadly I think our parents loving need for their children to have more, and never feel pain or have to suffer, has crippled our workforce. We are simply being outworked.
    Last edited by Mark Bolton; 04-02-2020 at 1:34 PM.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Day View Post
    If it was made in the USA it would have been garbage.

    See what I did there? ;-)
    Yes, you should be punished....Rod

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    This has been an ongoing topic in my shop conversations with locals, customers, and vendors as of late with all the talk of closing the borders and states initiating border checks for people moving from hotspots to less-hot spots. Somehow in all those conversations it always seems to spin back to importing and bringing manufacturing and work back to the US and NA. The brutally hard part with that is how to you motivate a society of people (mainly speaking to the young people) to be willing to to go to work and cash a paycheck (albeit not a kings ransom) making product that the US/NA consumer is flatly unwilling to pay for? I dont see it happening.

    I just picked up $10K worth of hardwood from our hardwood supplier who has about 3 million board feet of material on the yard at any point in time. A million+ board feet of KD, and 2 million BF+ air drying or in the process of KD/surfacing. Like me he is in a rural area and trying to find young/old/novice/experienced help that is willing to drive a fork truck or do mill yard work, climb the ladder and get promotions and so on, for even a fairly reasonable hourly rate is virtually impossible. You float an add in the paper, 20 apply, 10 walk out instantly, wont take a drug test, 4 more will, and fail, 3 of the remainder make it to the end of the application process, 2 get hired, one shows up on day one, and doest come back on day two.

    You can argue that the answer is to pay more but we are talking a decent wage, close to home, no commute time, and a where you can likely work all the hours you want and more... not interested.

    Now the mill buys a house up the road, and hires a bunch of legal migrant workers. He says they show up early, want to stay late (even if they are off the clock), work their butts off, and you have to beat them off like flies to get them to go to the house. We are being handed our hats. I spoke with a drywall finisher recently and a brick mason who echo'd the same thing. The migrant drywall crew hangs 120 sheets a day compared to the domestic crew hanging 40. Same deal with bricks.

    Sadly I think our parents loving need for their children to have more, and never feel pain or have to suffer, has crippled our workforce. We are simply being outworked.
    If you changed some of the terminology of your summary, you have done a pretty good job of describing (at least one aspect of) the Roman Empire around the beginning of it's decline. But of course instead of migrants, they were using slaves and indentured workers from the territories they had conquered - to do the work they no longer wanted to do.
    And eventually they became excessively dependent on these slaves while the Romans themselves were more consumed than ever with entertainment and other non-productive activities of various sorts.
    Eventually this all led to their economy collapsing because the supply pipeline of slaves was not sufficient to support the increasing number of Romans adopting the good life. Partly because they had run out of places to conquer.

    No one pays attention to these lessons anymore because it's well, ancient history.
    Edwin
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 04-02-2020 at 1:22 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    you have done a pretty good job of describing (at least one aspect of) the Roman Empire around the beginning of it's decline.
    The trajectory is pretty easily deduced. Ive been tooting this horn for 35 years. The unfortunate part is the only way its going to be resolved is we have to pay more. Not more wages, more for goods. A trash can (in a futile attempt to appease the mods of "on topic" and sticky's worded in biblical "thou shalt be... blah blah") will need to cost what its true cost is. Same with a gallon of gasoline.

    This is going to be an interesting summer. No apocalypse, but its going to be wild to watch it unfold and it may sweep a lot of us into the mess than we think.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  10. #10
    You guys must see a pretty girl on the street and think "she's gonna get old ". Italy is still a good place. There are all
    kinds of business things that bind countrys. The Soviet Union collapsed, was that bad? When I was kid we were told
    the robots were going to take our jobs. Are there any robots that have a job you want ? We used to bring people here and make them work. A LOT of people want to
    work here, which do you prefer?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    You guys must see a pretty girl on the street and think "she's gonna get old "
    Kinda more like.. ooooh.. Id like to get old with her

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    The Soviet Union collapsed, was that bad?
    I think you'd have to ask the people as it has pretty much never recovered and is "regime" led by someone who will savagely make sure he is in power for as long as he see's possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    When I was kid we were told the robots were going to take our jobs. Are there any robots that have a job you want ?
    Actually yes, there is one sitting in my shop, would I love to be compensated to "craft" cabinetry? Sure? Not an option now because the consumer finds no value so the "robot" does it cheaper. in hind sight I may well have saved some money and ditched the CNC and hired an immigration attorney to populate my shop with 2-5 humans and potentially cranked out the same work or more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    A LOT of people want to work here, which do you prefer?
    This statement makes me think youve been out of the hiring workers world for a bit too long. Its simply an untruth.
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  12. #12
    I will pick one . You mean the people trying to get into this country DON'T want to work ?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    I will pick one . You mean the people trying to get into this country DON'T want to work ?
    Opposite....
    Sometimes I just want to look at pretty pictures,... Thats when I go to the Turners Forum

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Fulks View Post
    I will pick one . You mean the people trying to get into this country DON'T want to work ?
    I'm not in the US however in Canada it's the opposite in most cases............Rod.

  15. #15
    Five years ago I was still working for a high end residential custom home builder as a carpenter.

    I had to find another way simply based on my surroundings. The dynamic was this, a bunch of fat bald old white guys milking the clock pissed at where they landed in life based on the decisions they made when they were young. As a result sinking the business of every employer they had ever had. This was contrast by a equally sized and growing workforce of highly skilled immigrants that busted ass and where happy to do so. The white guys all the while bitching about their jobs bing stolen build a wall yada yada.

    Made me sick and ultimately was painful enough to motivate me to find a way out. It also made me hate white guys and have the utmost respect for our immigrants. Whenever I would bump shoulder on a job site with a hard working immigrant with a smile on his face and good attitude “you can see this immediately in someone’s eyes and smile” I would instantly want to be his friend. A white guy with a chip on his shoulder that clearly doesn’t know the meaning of hard work and I just want to puke throw my hands in the air and tell the world how great us Americans have become. It became more work than “a immigrants day of hard work” to spend any amount of hours with these type people never mind 40-60 a week. And they felt the same way about me as their lazy asses were all “merca” build a wall and you a dam snowflake communist..

    I have been working in the trades on and off since 1992. I can remember as teenager painting houses summers “in my area” very very nice houses. But being I was painting them clearly I was of a different demographic. The skilled workers that I marveled at in those days as I shamefully swing a paint brush where all white guys most later in their years. Now 20 plus years later those highly skilled workers doing exceptional work are no longer white. They tend to be Hispanic, they work there asses of and are happy to do so as they come from knowing, know what nothing really is and are motivated to do everything they can to not have nothing. Most times if your white on a job site in the Boston area you are the minority. Something I have seen change in my lifetime. And I say good for them as these imagrwnt workers deserve opportunity as they are actually willing to work for a brewer life. The same white tradesman not even close!

    The above was pretty much my same experience as a guy whom grew up in a time when being a tradesman was still my best option “and not a bad one” coming from single parent household where mom worked two jobs to survive and collage was not a option.

    From what I see it’s as mark saiz. Spoiled pampered Lazy white guys and girls no longer know the meaning of a hard days work. His point about all these years of parents wanting their kin to have a better life along with technology has resulted in what is my oppinion a bunch of lazy useless sad sacks.

    The average white guy will put a small buisness out of buisness in very short order. Lucky for me I have always loved hard work. If not I’d be screwed...


    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Bolton View Post
    This has been an ongoing topic in my shop conversations with locals, customers, and vendors as of late with all the talk of closing the borders and states initiating border checks for people moving from hotspots to less-hot spots. Somehow in all those conversations it always seems to spin back to importing and bringing manufacturing and work back to the US and NA. The brutally hard part with that is how to you motivate a society of people (mainly speaking to the young people) to be willing to to go to work and cash a paycheck (albeit not a kings ransom) making product that the US/NA consumer is flatly unwilling to pay for? I dont see it happening.

    I just picked up close to $10K worth of hardwood from our hardwood supplier who has about 3 million board feet of material on the yard at any point in time. A million+ board feet of KD, and 2 million BF+ air drying or in the process of KD/surfacing. Like me he is in a rural area and trying to find young/old/novice/experienced help that is willing to drive a fork truck or do mill yard work, climb the ladder and get promotions and so on, for even a fairly reasonable hourly rate is virtually impossible. You float an add in the paper, 20 apply, 10 walk out instantly, wont take a drug test, 4 more will, and fail, 3 of the remainder make it to the end of the application process, 2 get hired, one shows up on day one, and doest come back on day two.

    You can argue that the answer is to pay more but we are talking a decent wage, close to home, no commute time, and a where you can likely work all the hours you want and more... not interested.

    Now the mill buys a house up the road, and hires a bunch of legal migrant workers. He says they show up early, want to stay late (even if they are off the clock), work their butts off, and you have to beat them off like flies to get them to go to the house. We are being handed our hats. I spoke with a drywall finisher recently and a brick mason who echo'd the same thing. The migrant drywall crew hangs 120 sheets a day compared to the domestic crew hanging 40. Same deal with bricks.

    Sadly I think our parents loving need for their children to have more, and never feel pain or have to suffer, has crippled our workforce. We are simply being outworked.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 04-02-2020 at 3:17 PM.

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