Need help with a Type 12 Stanley #5 jack plane

[Sam Shankar]

Hi there,

I'm a beginner with hand planes and I wanted to get myself an older jack plane. I ended up buying a Stanley #5 jack plane that I got off eBay. It appears to be a Type 12 (based on the markings on the main casting) and one of the attractions was that it came with a 0.95" aftermarket Lie-Nielsen blade.

The seller listed it as being in working condition but I can't get it working well. I think I have diagnosed three problems but don't know how to fix them.

Problem 1: the yoke on the depth adjuster isn't properly engaging the chipbreaker. I think that may be because the replacement blade is a little thicker than stock, but the tip of the yoke also seems a little worn down. Am I right that the only solution is to replace this? And if so, can someone point me to the place to get what I need?

Problem 2: This one has me stumped. Even though the frog moves freely and the face of the frog is pretty flat, I can't position the frog in a way that (1) has the blade lying flat on the mating surface and (2) leaves a decent gap between the blade and the front of the mouth of the plane. If I back the frog out enough to open the mouth to 1/16-1/8", the front of the blade rests on the back of the plane mouth, NOT on the frog. And if I advance the frog enough to solve that problem, there is barely any space between the blade and the front of the mouth. The only solution I can see is to file open up BACK of the plane mouth at least 1/16. But for a plane sold as being usable, this seems like a very aggressive solution. What am I missing?

Problem 3: The little washer/disc on the lateral adjustment lever is missing. Am I right that I can live without this? If not, how do i fix it?

Thanks in advance!


Blade 1.jpgAdjuster 1.jpgchipbreaker 2.jpgChipbreaker.jpgFrog 1.jpgFrog 2.jpgMouth open.jpg

[steven c newman]

Two I would suggest to try...one sell the over-sized iron and chip breaker, and get a set MADE for this plane. If do want to keep that thicker iron...close the chipbreaker up to the edge of the iron, and move the frog forward to be co-planar with that ramp on the mouth's back edge.

What is keeping the iron from laying flat is that HUGE bolt holding the two parts together...

I have replaced a disc or two...dab of JB Weld, and a washer that just fits onto the pin.

Yoke is just fine...it is the fault of that too thick iron, keeping the yoke from reaching the chipbreaker.

A 2" wide set of an OEM iron and chipbreaker can be had from that "auction site"

Most who do try to use those after market, thick irons, wind up filing the front of the mouth opening.

There isn't enough space in that circle where the lever caps bolt come through....to allow much adjustment without hitting the bolt.

Yes, you can live without that washer on the lateral lever....small hammer, tap to correct the lateral.

[david charlesworth]

1 You could get a Woodriver yoke with a longer peg from woodcraft.

2 Personally I like to file the front edge of the throat only. 1or two millimeters should be plenty.

3 Lateral setting may be done with a small hammer. Gentle taps.

David Charlesworth

[Sam Shankar]

Okay so now with a little research I see that this is an aftermarket chipbreaker as well. But the iron does sit flat on the frog even with the bolt in place...the problem is that I can't advance it without the front of the blade hitting the 'ramp' on the back of the mouth. I definitely see lots of irons and chipbreakers on auction. Are they basically all the same between all the various 'types?'

[Derek Cohen]

Sam, if the plane was mine, I’d ask for my money back.

Or get a new frog.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Sam,

I’m with Derek. Seems like a lot of work to get a plane that’s readily available up to speed. If you do end following Steven’s suggestion and get an OEM blade and chipbreaker, you can probably recoup most of your investment by selling the LN blade/chipbreaker.

[Sam Shankar]

Derek and Stephen, I took your advice. And it took only 5 minutes for the seller to offer a refund. I will post my next question - whether to continue on this 'vintage plane' mission or go with a new Veritas plane (there are some important details to that question) - separately

[steven c newman]

Stick with a 2" wide stanley model,,,slots vary in location between makers....and a chipbreaker from a Transitional plane will NOT work on an all iron plane..( why you see double slots on some, someone added a slot)
happen to have a Stanley #5...set up with a cambered iron..
Jack plane, show and tell.JPG
Show & Tell time...
Jack plane, lays flat.JPG
Remove the lever cap.....see all the room? this is also laying flat...because
Jack plane, bolt size.JPG
A Stanley made bolt is thinner, edges have been champfered/rounded for more clearance in the well..
Jack plane, frog details.JPG
I have this frog even with the back edge of the opening of the mouth...
Jack plane, co-planar.JPG
When people close up the mouth by sliding the frog forward, they lose the support that little ramp provides...then the cutting edge of the iron is hanging out in mid-air, and then they complain about it "chattering" and claim only an after-market thicker iron will solve the problem? Marketing BS, actually. next..
Jack plane, camber.JPG
As I said, this has a cambered edge...it IS a Jack plane, after all. Chipbreaker is right at the corners of the iron..no, I do NOT add a "camber " to the chipbreaker, no need to.
Stanley No. 12-004, front logo.JPG
This is a No 4c ( made in England, No. 12-004) that is set up as a smoother. Frog is still in the same place as the jack plane's
Stanley No. 12-004, groovy.JPG
The ONLY difference is the iron has almost no camber, and the chipbreaker is set about 1-2mm back from the edge. Chatter? ZERO. Iron? original to the plane, as is the chipbreaker.

[steven c newman]

It's your money.....some here might even earn a sales commission....maybe sell them that oversized iron, and get the one designed for that plane..

[Stephen Rosenthal]

Some people are more interested in putting their tools to work than working on their tools.

[Sam Shankar]

Yeah. Like I said...I took your advice.

[steven c newman]

Yep...
Tool Cabinet Door 2, No. 7 shavings.JPG
Was using a Stanley No. 7c, Type 9 a little while ago....set it down here, so it wouldn't fall off...as I was adding a bevel to the edge of a door..
Tool Cabinet Door 2, plane a bevel.JPG
So the door would close without hitting the other door...two holes were for a fence, that was added decades ago.
Tool Cabinet Door 2, door beveled.JPG
Doesn't take much..maybe 5 degrees.....

Sure..go ahead and buy a new plane...that way, you will learn.....how to open a box.
Not only did the No.7c get USED today...so did a Type 11 No. 3...and a 60-1/2 Block plane...
Chisel rack, cleaned up.JPG
and..
Chisel rack, champfer all edges.JPG
Mine are all users....NOT pretty little toys that sit on a shelf...

[Jim Koepke]

Derek and Stephen, I took your advice. And it took only 5 minutes for the seller to offer a refund. I will post my next question - whether to continue on this 'vintage plane' mission or go with a new Veritas plane (there are some important details to that question) - separately

One of the main details is if you want a plane ready to go or do you want one you might have to clean and sharpen.

The second detail is the reason you are wanting a jack plane. What are the kinds of projects you plan to work on? How do you intend to use it?

Do you want a newer plane with a bit of eye appeal or is it being a good user a more important feature?

Maybe another good question to help those who are helping you to make up your mind is what planes do you currently own and any projects you may have already done.

Your original statement:

I'm a beginner with hand planes and I wanted to get myself an older jack plane.

Gives the impression you may be already doing work with machines and you may be branching out. A #5 is a good place to start.

jtk

[Robert Hazelwood]

All of the problems seen to come from the LN iron being significantly thicker than the iron it was designed for. You can make it work with some effort

A type 12 is a good vintage IMO. Probably worth keeping around.

See if you can find a Stanley iron, or consider a Hock O1. They are in between vintage and LN in thickness.

Also you don't actually need a huge mouth opening. The thickest shavings you will ever take will probably be 1/64" or less. 15 thou. A metal plane can pass that shaving with a mouth opening of 1/32 easily.

[J. Greg Jones]

See if you can find a Stanley iron, or consider a Hock O1. They are in between vintage and LN in thickness.

It looks like the OP has already decided on a refund, but that Lie-Nielsen iron is .095 thick, same as a Hock (3/32”) iron.