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Thread: Dyson designs new ventilator in 10 days

  1. #1
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    Dyson designs new ventilator in 10 days

    Picked this up on another WW forum

    https://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...ombat-pandemic

    Kudos to him.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  2. #2
    I am glad to hear about companies making ventilators. Mrs. is a Nurse at the local hospital. Masks and gowns are in such short supply that she is given one set for each potential infectious person she cares for. reusing masks is a danger to her and to other patients. Allegedly 3M is making over 1 million masks per day and another California company is making over 3 million a day. It would be really nice if some were actually delivered to hospitals for use. The hospital has been told everything is on back order by all the medical suppliers. Nurses have started turning in resignations and applying for other jobs because of the shortages. Which creates a strain for the remaining staff. Politicians keep saying fuzzy warm things about getting supplies for the medical workers, it would be nice if someone actually delivered instead of talking about it. I don't know where the logistics have failed, but it would be nice if one of them stepped in and actually did something to free them up.

  3. #3
    I would be concerned about a brand new design for a ventilator, especially by someone who was not experienced with the design of ventilators. I'm sure there are all kind of subtleties in the design and operation of a ventilator and it would take quite a bit of testing to work it all out before you were willing to put it on a human. It seems to me that the best and safest approach is to take existing, proven designs and ramp up production.

    Even then, I expect some problems with some of the units from manufacturing defects. When you push a production line you get problems.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #4
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    If I had a loved one dying due to a lack of ventilators, I would rejoice to have someone step in with a new piece of equipment or to split one ventilator for two persons. We need to think how to make things work, not coming up with reasons why they might not work. I just watched a war film about Ford cranking out a B-24 bomber every 55 minutes during WWII. We need that mentality.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zukteYbGQ
    NOW you tell me...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Henderson View Post
    I would be concerned about a brand new design for a ventilator, especially by someone who was not experienced with the design of ventilators.
    There are generally two kinds of ventilators....simpler designs like the one that Dyson came up with to "assist" with breathing by supplying air passively at low pressure and the more complicated computerized units that are designed for serious life support. A large percentage of the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized supposedly can benefit from the simpler designs which are faster and easier to product. Dyson was actually in a good position to do this because they have extensive experience, research and IP around moving air efficiently with small devices. What they are doing should generally be extremely helpful in support of patients who just need some assistance and can be served by the simpler method. It does sound like their focus is primarily on the UK, however.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    There are generally two kinds of ventilators....simpler designs like the one that Dyson came up with to "assist" with breathing by supplying air passively at low pressure and the more complicated computerized units that are designed for serious life support. A large percentage of the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized supposedly can benefit from the simpler designs which are faster and easier to product. Dyson was actually in a good position to do this because they have extensive experience, research and IP around moving air efficiently with small devices. What they are doing should generally be extremely helpful in support of patients who just need some assistance and can be served by the simpler method. It does sound like their focus is primarily on the UK, however.
    That distinction was not covered in the article posted. When I think of a ventilator, I think of intubating someone. From experience with a loved one who was intubated, I know that those ventilators are complex - and they're controlled by software.

    The problem with any device that is used on humans is to make sure that it does not harm. That is, it would be tragic if the device caused death that would not have occurred without the device.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  7. #7
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    Yes, for full intubation, the "more complicated" computerized ventilator is required. You may notice that many of the folks posting on social media from their hospital beds are not intubated and are equipped with cannula at the nose that provides positive air pressure. Some may be on O2, but others are just getting air assist. There's a great need for both types.

    I absolutely agree with the hope for "do no harm", however.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Yes, for full intubation, the "more complicated" computerized ventilator is required. You may notice that many of the folks posting on social media from their hospital beds are not intubated and are equipped with cannula at the nose that provides positive air pressure. Some may be on O2, but others are just getting air assist. There's a great need for both types.

    I absolutely agree with the hope for "do no harm", however.
    If all the patient has is a cannula there’s no ventilation. Oxygen to a cannula is controlled by a simple regulator. Ventilation is when the device forces air into and out of the lungs. You absolutely cannot do that with a cannula. In fact, it's difficult to do with anything "external" (not intubated). They do have devices that work with a tight fitting external mask but those do not work as well as intubation.

    In any case, I think when doctors speak of a ventilator they are talking about intubation.

    Those other devices should be called breathing assist.

    Mike

    [And just some additional information: Being on an intubated ventilator is extremely uncomfortable. And every few hours a nurse comes by and inserts a vacuum hose down the intubation tube to vacuum out fluid - and that's even more uncomfortable (painful). It's no fun being conscious on a ventilator and the doctors have said that they want intubated people conscious.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 03-28-2020 at 12:10 PM.

  9. #9
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    "Any port in a storm"

  10. #10
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    When people talk about GM and Ford gearing up to make ventilators, I keep thinking that the mechanical parts will be simple to manufacturer, but the electronics and control systems will be nearly impossible to generate quickly, especially with China supplying most of our electronics.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    "Any port in a storm"
    In desperate times there are people who sell "hope", false hope. It's important that we question and make sure that what's being offered is what's actually needed and that it really helps people - not just a placebo effect.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    There are generally two kinds of ventilators....simpler designs like the one that Dyson came up with to "assist" with breathing by supplying air passively at low pressure and the more complicated computerized units that are designed for serious life support. A large percentage of the Covid-19 patients who are hospitalized supposedly can benefit from the simpler designs which are faster and easier to product. Dyson was actually in a good position to do this because they have extensive experience, research and IP around moving air efficiently with small devices. What they are doing should generally be extremely helpful in support of patients who just need some assistance and can be served by the simpler method. It does sound like their focus is primarily on the UK, however.
    Could you point me to your source for this information? Particularly the first part?
    Thanks
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 03-28-2020 at 1:09 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hennebury View Post
    "Any port in a storm"
    Precisely.
    This is a crisis, as in all hands on deck emergency. Nothing is going to come in the neat packages we would like.
    I'm not sure there has been a full acceptance of the degree of gravity and the speed at which it is accelerating.

  14. #14
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    I would hope he would make it open source and give out the plans to companies that could also make them. Sort of like what happened in world war II

  15. #15
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    I have no idea whether Dyson's system is viable or not. A quick googling on ventilators appears to only refer to one type as Mike alluded to. You are intubated. A CPAP machine is not a ventilator or anything like that. It takes more than an air flow to be a ventilator. It also removes the carbon dioxide. I was told that it's possible to use the machine that anesthesiologists use during surgery with a small modification as a ventilator. I have no idea if this is possible. I also heard it said by a Boston hospital that in a worst case scenario that they could put a tee in line and use one machine on two patients. That is less than ideal I am sure but desparate times require desparate measures.

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