End grain and my LN 60 1/2 R block plane, and other troubles..warning, long read...

[Warren Mickley]

Is it safe to conclude that using an A2 iron in an low angle plane is foolish if the goal is to plane end grain with a low angle of attack ?

In 1976 I was planing with a block plane, hard maple end grain maybe two inches thick, and my fingers were cramping. I thought "something is not right here". I switched to a bench plane and have not used a block plane for anything since. I can see that for a carpenter it is nice to have something small on your belt, but for a woodworker that works at a bench it is clumsy.

In 1982 I altered a Bailey bench plane from 45 to 42 degrees. There is a very small improvement for end grain, hardly noticeable. Much more important than angle is the quality of your iron and how sharp it is. I am not a fan of A2 steel. I have been to more than a dozen Woodworking in America and Lie Nielsen events and have tried many tools with A2 irons of various manufacturers. None of them, including planes that cost thousands gave the quality of a Stanley iron from 1915. I could be just the skill of the people doing the sharpening.

Is it safe to make your conclusion? Let us just say it is not unreasonable.

[Jim Koepke]

Out comes my LN 60 1/2 R block plane with A2 iron, which I bought years ago, but only rarely used.

My feelings toward A2 is along are similar to Warren's. It did seem to chip less after a number of sharpenings. It seems some chipping may be due to the forces of impact.

As Derek mentioned, a low angle rabbet plane isn't a good substitute for a low angle block plane.

jtk

[Charles Guest]

I often use a shoulder plane to trim end grain which is essentially what they're designed for. A relatively large amount of mass in a small area is helpful. Monitor progress with a straight edge, starting of course with high spots. Most projects, barring reproductions from certain periods, are typically designed to show little to no end grain so what we're usually doing is trimming for square. For wide workpieces, I use a No. 6 or 7. A No. 4 seems to be a bit in no-man's land to me for this job, but it's not worth a debate. Use what works for you.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

I suspect sharpening is at least one issue. At the moment im caught between 3 sharpening regimes. Yours with spydercos and hollow grind, David W´s with oilstones and Rob cosmans. Im mixing everything up with a honing guide... So many things I need to get a hold on in order to improve. I think my spydercos are now a little glogged due to not using water, so they need to be dressed on my already worn out DMT lapping plate. it will take ages if its possible at all. I also need to figure out if I should stay with honing guide for a while and wait with free hand until later.

I have a LN 101 block plane. Its still A2 blade. Would that be more suitable for end grain ? I still think that I would prefer steel that could handle 25 degrees for a low angle plane.

[Eric Danstrom]

I use the Veritas mkII with DMT plates to the "fine grit" (~2000g) then a KING 8000g. It makes my Veritas and Lie Nielson A2 blades able to take half a thousand shaving. Someday I might be a freehander but in the meantime my A2s, O1s and vintage Stanley/Record/Marples/Sorby blades are all as sharp as they can be.

I screwed around with water stones but got feed up with all the mess. DMT plates and windex make it simple....

[Robert Hazelwood]

You can clean Spydercos with Barkeeper's Friend or other kitchen scouring cleaner. I treat mine like an oilstone and use WD40, it lifts the swarf off nicely on the ultrafine.

As I said before, A2 works well enough at 25 degrees in a low angle plane. Based on your descriptions I think you may have a defective iron or you are just really screwing something up during sharpening.

Most any plane is suitable for end grain, just pick a sharpening routine and stick with it until you get decent results, they all work.

[Rob Luter]

.....I have a LN 101 block plane. Its still A2 blade. Would that be more suitable for end grain ? I still think that I would prefer steel that could handle 25 degrees for a low angle plane.

In your original post I missed that you were using a 60 1/2 R. The fairly open mouth on those may be a contributor to your difficulties, but not to the chipping. The 101 is bedded at 20* and is a tiny plane. A #4 used with a skewed/slicing cut should work.

Edit: Your original post speaks of "little metal flakes". Are you sure you're getting the wire edge removed when you sharpen? I had a similar issue once when I hadn't got it removed. A strop or a quick pull through some end grain could make a difference.

[Jim Matthews]

Lots of more experienced users have answered before me. Is the Pine used in the bench from the Baltics, of Norge countries?

Far Northern latitudes produce Pine species with very hard "late wood" which may act as a "brake" on a fast moving plane blade. The *now* rare Longleaf Pine in North America was notorious for this character.

Much of the contemporary North American species are homogeneous and soft by comparison.

Bob Rozaieski offers an excellent summary of much that was discussed.

http://brfinewoodworking.com/planing-end-grain/

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

It's from Norway or Sweden I'm sure. Just under 1 mm between the growth rings.

[Jim Matthews]

It's from Norway or Sweden I'm sure. Just under 1 mm between the growth rings.

A picture might be in order.

Do your boards resemble the attached image?

https://berdollsawmill.com/longleaf-pine/


I suspect your boards may be from older trees that grew more slowly than what we commonly see in North America.

If the plane removes shavings from the flat face of these boards and the narrow edges, the end grain is presenting something much harder.

While the possibility of a defective blade is possible, that would not be my first verification step. (And I have owned poorly made irons, but not from LN or LV.)

[lowell holmes]

I have stones and diamond hones. I use them both.