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Thread: What can we learn from this

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Edwin Santos View Post
    Why do you think this? Do masks have a limited storage life?
    Is an "old"mask that was boxed in storage any less effective than a "new" mask?
    Well if you're inquisitive enough, Google can be your friend, and today I learned that indeed 3M face masks have a shelf life of 5 years. This is shorter than I would have thought. Anyone interested can read more here: https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...f-life-faq.pdf


    Of course there are suspicious types like me that wonder if the shortest possible shelf life might be in the best interests of the manufacturer who would like to sell as many as possible. But I suppose that's a whole other conversation.

    I would bet 3M and their competitors in the space will be selling a lot of face masks and PPE in the future regardless of the recommended shelf life.

    Edwin
    Last edited by Edwin Santos; 03-26-2020 at 4:10 PM.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    Perhaps use simple cloth ties; no elastic.
    "Back in the day" such things were tied, but with how frequent the changes are in current times, elastic is the most expeditious and causes the least challenge for fast changes with less risk of contamination. The old type would likely be fine for physical disaster triage and treatment, but not for something disease based. That's speculation on my part, but I think it's likely sound.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #48
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    Edwin, there are a lot of materials that degrade with time even if they are just sitting without being used. As an example unrelated to the pandemic, equestrian safety helmets are generally considered to have a useful life of 5-6 years max before the materials that are used for the shock absorbing protection begin to degrade. The may not be very much at that point, but it's apparently enough to affect whether they would continue to pass certification testing. (They also have to be destroyed and discarded if there is a fall and the helmet comes in contact with the ground or other hard objects, but that's a different story) The point here is that man natural and synthetic materials have a shelf life when made into a product. That said, I agree with you that just like with "sell by" dates on food, "use by" dates on many things are probably set to a shorter time than the actual usable life for the item is from a practical standpoint. And that shorter period of time undoubtedly does have some "input" from the bean counters at the manufacturer.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  4. #49
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    Even body armor (bullet proof vest ) come with an expiration date, around 5 to 7 years.
    Sometimes we see what we expect to see, and not what we are looking at! Scott

  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Donley View Post
    Even body armor (bullet proof vest ) come with an expiration date, around 5 to 7 years.
    That's an interesting point. I have a government-issue bullet-proof vest from the late '70's (long story, overseas service) that still seems pretty solid to me. Thank heavens it doesn't have any dings in it. :^) Can anyone comment further on this?

  6. #51
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    Doug, just do a Google search. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtaBmroJFU
    Sometimes we see what we expect to see, and not what we are looking at! Scott

  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Donley View Post
    Doug, just do a Google search. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rtaBmroJFU
    That's kind of marginal, it still stopped the slugs (nobody said you wouldn't get at least a bruise.) Mine is made with ceramic plates. Probably less of an issue.

  8. #53
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    One of my favorite movie lines about the 'sell by dates' is in RED when John Malkovich takes a bite out of a 30+ year old Moon Pie and someone asks if he is sure it is okay. He replies, "yeah, it is from before they had all that sell by date stuff."

    My memory likely got the quote wrong, but it got the idea.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #54
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    car seats for kids, bike helmets and hard hats all have expiration dates too. I believe its because the plastic keeps off-gassing and gets brittle with age. Thrift stores wont take car seats because of this around here.

  10. I got a position as an intern back in 1973 with the state senate legal staff in Harrisburg PA One of the things going on back then was a feigned malpractice crisis that was going to leave us with no doctors. Coupled with this was a move to find ways to keep medical costs down. Nearly every state had a hospital regulation/licensing agency that would regulate the numbers of beds and types of equipment for the hospitals. Expansions were not permitted except upon some population increases. As a result by 2018 to present, our local two hospitals were running at capacity at least during some part of every week since 2018. A year ago during a heavy flu outbreak, they were actually over capacity to emergency over load. A moth ago, with the chinese needed a sudden emergency supply of masks and gowns, the stream of such supplies coming to the us has dwindled. Hospital staffs here were warned a month ago., PPE were running very low. Orders were made, but you can't fill the demand when there are none. So now we face a paucity of hospital supplies for this day at the hospital. there are not enough being produced. Not enough masks means that instead of changine to a new mask every time there is entry into an infectious person's room, the masks must be reused. for an entire shift. 2 shifts a day, that is under emergency protocols, 3 masks per patient per day. Normally it would be 10 or 15 masks per day pr patient. Since we are running out, urses and staff are going to get sick. So instead of one nurse for every 5 patients, a few nurses sick for two weeks will create a severe strain with one nurse to perhaps 8 patients. Patients may as well be on their own for the attention they will get. There will come a time, like in Italy that there are not enough ventilators and folks are going to die for lack of medical machines and support.
    Last edited by Perry Hilbert Jr; 03-26-2020 at 9:14 PM.

  11. #56
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    Perry; any thoughts on the WHO's warning that the USA has the "potential" to overtake Europe as the new epicenter of the Covid 19 virus.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mann View Post
    I don't think that an economic rescue package should contain utterly unrelated controversial legislation like elements of the "Green New Deal". That is an unethical attempt to force unrelated change by holding the public hostage.
    It is unethical and dishonest. It's also been going on for a long time, it just doesn't get noticed. And both parties have used it. I think there was an attempt in Congress to not allow adding pork to unrelated legislation. It died a quick death.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Calow View Post
    car seats for kids, bike helmets and hard hats all have expiration dates too. I believe its because the plastic keeps off-gassing and gets brittle with age. Thrift stores wont take car seats because of this around here.
    I just finished remodeling my basement bathroom the other day. House was built in 1980 and some of the PVC drain pipes were very brittle so the plastic is not aging well. No issues so long as the pipes aren't touched. I could snap original pipe in half easily while newer pipe added during some earlier repairs I could not break and I had to cut it with a saw to get it into the trash..

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I just finished remodeling my basement bathroom the other day. House was built in 1980 and some of the PVC drain pipes were very brittle so the plastic is not aging well. No issues so long as the pipes aren't touched. I could snap original pipe in half easily while newer pipe added during some earlier repairs I could not break and I had to cut it with a saw to get it into the trash..
    That's weird. We deal with PVC electrical conduit a lot & the only time I've seen it get brittle is when it's been exposed to sunlight for a couple of decades. Or when it's super cold.

  15. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Elfert View Post
    I just finished remodeling my basement bathroom the other day. House was built in 1980 and some of the PVC drain pipes were very brittle so the plastic is not aging well. No issues so long as the pipes aren't touched. I could snap original pipe in half easily while newer pipe added during some earlier repairs I could not break and I had to cut it with a saw to get it into the trash..
    Mass use of PVC plumbing was fairly new back then and some manufacturers were having problems with it. There were many lawsuits starting back in the '80's.

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