Shapton Pro vs Shapton Glass

[Ross Manning]

I'm thinking of changing from the Sigma Select Power II to "splash-n-go" stones in lower grits, probably replacing the 1000 & 3000.
I'll probably keep the Sigma 10,000 as I have been using it like a splash n go and it seems to work fine that way.

My choices are down to Shapton Glass (been very happy with the glass 16,000 stone) or the Shapton Pro.

I have not used the Pro stones - so would be VERY interested in any opinions and experiences from those who have used both.
I also want to reduce the mess - I did see Shapton Pro stones at a trade show and looked like they ware producing a lot more slurry than I get on the glass stone I have.

Also happy to hear from anyone thinking that its a waste of time to change, but if so, why?
I would like the convenience of not having to soak the lower grit stones before use.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I probably do not have enough experience to comment completely, but... I like that with my shapton's, I spray them and use them, very fast.

I have a 16000 glass stone and I really like it.

I have a 5000 Pro. and it does the job. I have heard some people say that they specifically disliked the 5000 based on some of its characteristics but I think that they really liked the 6000. I have only used the 5000 in this range and it works well for me.

I think that if you have some of those super steels, you might need to stick with what you have (since I think that it cuts very fast on some of those super steels, but I have not tried them and I do not have that super steel).

At the end of the day, you need to understand how you sharpen and make a decision. I place a hollow grind using my Tormek. I then free hand on the 5000 and then directly to the 16000. I get a very sharp edge doing this. I do have lower grit stones, but I rarely ever use them because I start with the hollow grind. So, why do you need lower grit stones? That is a key question. You can also use sand paper if needed, that works well, but the costs add up.

Other options if you do not want all the fuss of soaking. Get one or two Arkansas stones. Again, no soaking. I can get a pretty nice edge from a the Black (ultra fine) stone from Dan's Whetstones. I saw a video with David Weaver (on youtube) where he sharpens his plane blade on Washita then goes directly to his strop and then he takes these amazing shavings. You should know that not all Arkansas stones are created equal, just something to keep in mind.

Another option if you do not want all that soaking is the Spyderco Ceramic bench stones.

But wait, I know people who swear by diamonds....

I do not know where you live, but, if you are in the Ohio area, after we are past this whole social distancing thing, you can wander over and give some things a try. Where do you live? If someone else lives near, you might be able to try some of their stones. Nothing beats being able to try it to see if you like the feel or how well it works for you.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Side note... I seem to have more issues with the blades sticking to the shapton stones than some of my other stones. They are also my hardest / finest stones. I have not tried my one Spyderco stone yet, I have simply not gotten around to it. I think that they recommend that you use it dry, and that would avoid the problem entirely. I just need to read up on it before I give that a go.

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, spritz the stones with a little soapy water to avoid the stiction.

Ross, I prefer the Shapton Pro 1000 to the Sigma. I use this with a range of steels. I also like the Sigma 6000, and dislike the Shapton Pro 5000 (sorry Andrew ... but then we probably sharpen different steels).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, spritz the stones with a little soapy water to avoid the stiction.

Ross, I prefer the Shapton Pro 1000 to the Sigma. I use this with a range of steels. I also like the Sigma 6000, and dislike the Shapton Pro 5000 (sorry Andrew ... but then we probably sharpen different steels).

I add a little dish soap to my spray water bottle (my wife keeps steeling my spray bottles so I buy another). I see the problem mostly with larger blades while flattening backs (or polishing it a bit to remove the burr).

The 5000 was a stone that I purchased when I decided to learn to sharpen kitchen knives. It was part of a recommended set of stones. I suspect it was you (Derek) that said that you did not like the 5000 some time back. So you use the Sigma 6000 now? I had decided that I would probably replace it with something else based on the comments, but after years of sharpening, the stone does not show significant signs of wear. I assume this is because the primary stuff happens on the Tormek so there is minimal wear on my stones. Also, I now have Arkansas stones that I might use instead (as the mood strikes me).

[Derek Cohen]

Andrew, I have two systems: one is the waterstone system - Shapton Pro 1000/ Sigmas 6000 and 13000. I use this mostly. The other system is a travel system - because it used very little water and has almost no upkeep - well used (15 years old!) Eze-lap 600 grit diamond stone, and Spyderco Medium and Ultra Fine. Both may be followed by Veritas green compound on hardwood, mostly to ensure that there is no wire left.

Ultimately, it really comes down to what you are used to using, and how well the stones suit the steel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ross Manning]

Thanks guys.

Derek, have you also used the glass stones? If so how do they compare with the Pro for cutting speed and mess?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, I have two systems: one is the waterstone system - Shapton Pro 1000/ Sigmas 6000 and 13000. I use this mostly. The other system is a travel system - because it used very little water and has almost no upkeep - well used (15 years old!) Eze-lap 600 grit diamond stone, and Spyderco Medium and Ultra Fine. Both may be followed by Veritas green compound on hardwood, mostly to ensure that there is no wire left.

Ultimately, it really comes down to what you are used to using, and how well the stones suit the steel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I considered getting the Sigma 6000 and 13000, but decided against another water stone unless I had a steel that needed something more. I also considered getting the Spyderco Medium, but I want to take the time to evaluate the Ultra Fine stone that I have first unless I run across one at a great price. Do you use your Spyderco stones wet or dry?

[Lawrence Burkett]

Thanks guys.

Derek, have you also used the glass stones? If so how do they compare with the Pro for cutting speed and mess?

I'm not Derek, but the glass stones cut fine, wear slowly, and create minimal mess (relative to other waterstones). Some people don't prefer the tactile feedback that results from their texture.

I personally prefer the Naniwa Chosera (now renamed Naniwa Professional), but they definitely don't meet your criteria (they make a lot of mud).

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks guys.

Derek, have you also used the glass stones? If so how do they compare with the Pro for cutting speed and mess?

Ross, you probably know as much, if not more, as I about the glass stones. I have used them on a few occasions some years ago, when I demonstrated for Lie Nielsen at wood shows. They worked just fine on the A2 blades. But so have the Pros I have, and these are twice as thick, which is effectively half the price of the glass stones.

When I compared the Shapton Pros with the equivalent Sigmas, I found the Pro 1000 was faster, but the Sigma 6000 and 13000 were nicer to use and worked faster on A2 and PM-V11 than the Pro 5000 and 12000. I’m not one to try out sharpening media much, and tend to stick with a set for as long as possible. The only reason I began looking at Sigma was that the Shapton Pro 5000 was such a dog in my shop. It may just have been this particular stone. I may have stuck with the Shapton Pro 12000 (nice stone) but Stu sent me the 1000/13000 duo Sigma to test out for him when he first started out with this brand. That was a good number of years ago now. I am still using the 13000 side.

Do you use your Spyderco stones wet or dry?

Andrew, I generally spritz them with soapy water. Often the water on a blade after a rinse under the tap is enough to lubricate the surface.

I cannot imagine using any media without something to carry away swarf. The stone will clog up. One may get away with it for a short time, but then the surface needs a scrub.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ross Manning]

Thanks Derek,

Still mulling it all over!

[David Silverson]

I bought the Spyderco when Derek first posted on his site about about them. I’ve been the usual route over 25 years, sandpaper on glass, waterstones etc. I love the Spyderco and can’t see changing. They cut fast including the few pmv11 blades I have and to me give a good feel feedback.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, I generally spritz them with soapy water. Often the water on a blade after a rinse under the tap is enough to lubricate the surface.

I cannot imagine using any media without something to carry away swarf. The stone will clog up. One may get away with it for a short time, but then the surface needs a scrub.

I know they say that I can use my diamonds dry, but, I have tried water (usually with some soap), Gatco Honing Oil, and Smith's Honing Solution. I prefer Gatco or Smith's over water and I do not like using diamonds without the honing solution if the situation easily permits it.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Mark R Webster]

The only reason I began looking at Sigma was that the Shapton Pro 5000 was such a dog in my shop. It may just have been this particular stone.

Hi Derek, I may have missed earlier posts regarding this but what specifically did you not like about the Pro 5000? What kind of steel were you sharpening?



Andrew, I generally spritz them with soapy water. Often the water on a blade after a rinse under the tap is enough to lubricate the surface.

I cannot imagine using any media without something to carry away swarf. The stone will clog up. One may get away with it for a short time, but then the surface needs a scrub.

Regards from Perth

Derek[/QUOTE]

[Ross Manning]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

I've bitten the bullet & ordered the Shapton Glass - getting in before the plummeting pacific peso in our fine land of Arse-tralia causes a dramatic price rise.