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Thread: Interested in hand tools but scared of sharpening? Hear me out on this!

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Buresh View Post

    Don't be afraid to start with cheap equipment. The experience you will gain is priceless, and when you do upgrade, you will have the confidence to do the job right.
    Oooh, sorry but I have to totally disagree with this! I went down this road starting out and believe me, the only experience I gained was frustration and self doubt.

    That said, nothing wrong with oil stones, and I use them, but I would not start with them. Water stones are much faster and give quicker feedback which is very beneficial to a beginner as well as expert. They also are not easy to flatten as they wear.

  2. #17
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    When I started, I was afraid of sharpening. I purchased a fancy set of chisels that would come sharp enough to use, but then I was afraid that I would damage them.

    I ended up practicing on dirt cheap garbage Stanley chisels (couple of bucks each) on sandpaper. In the long run, the price would add up, but it worked. As I improved, I started adding things to improve my results. If I had known someone who could have mentored me, it would have helped. I have done some damage that left permanent marks, thankfully in areas that do not matter, glad it happened on the cheap chisels.

    The nice thing about what Derek shows is that it has a trivial entrance point and price. You can teach a bunch of people how to do it without spending a bunch of money, and they can take it home. After you learn the skill, you can figure out if you really want to invest the money to purchase a better system.

    When I teach fountain pens to children, I bear the entire expense. I purchased about 50 fountain pens to prepare for the summer class. You can be sure that I did not purchase high end pens. One year we made our own with straws, they were not great, did not last long, but they worked. From there they could decide if they wanted to invest the money in a nicer pen for certain types of fancy writing. The pens I hand out are mostly for regular writing with some exceptions.

    I have a cheap set of chisels new in package for similar reasons; although I misplaced them during my last shop clean-up
    More than someone I know has wanted a set for very very occasional user so they get a tuned up set of very inexpensive chisels.

  3. #18
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    And....we're off on yet another sharpening thread....

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    And....we're off on yet another sharpening thread....
    Sorry Steven.

    My intention of this post was not to start a debate but simply if a potential woodworker is not starting because they think they need to buy top of line equipment that they should consider buying what they can afford and get in the shop.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    And....we're off on yet another sharpening thread....
    Most sharpening threads are just thinly veiled justification for a four-figure investment in honing and grinding gear. Inevitably someone will present photos in excruciating detail of adequately cut dovetails along with all the gear it supposedly took to prep the equipment they felt necessary to execute the dovetails in the photos. The only problem is that it doesn't take all of that stuff, and dovetails aren't that hard to do in the first place. Inevitably the irrefutable by lack of logic argument is made that "they would have used all of this had they had it" is made and then it just devolves from there. "They" of course meaning the master craftsmen of the past whose work we all know and love. The effectiveness of these arguments, generally, requires a gullible reader impressed by intermediate woodworking done at the torrid pace of two projects a year the success of which largely results from an unlimited budget in time, tools, and materials.
    Last edited by Charles Guest; 03-24-2020 at 1:46 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven c newman View Post
    And....we're off on yet another sharpening thread....
    Ha ha, yes Steven. We guys love to pontificate. My own experience began w waterstones and has ended with Washita stones. I use sand paper and a bench grinder to flatten backs and repair bevels, once the tool is in working order I use my Washita stone and a strop. I'm also a hobbyist, so I would not consider spending hundreds of $$$ in sharpening tools. My father was a professional woodworker, I don't remember him screwing around with jigs or fancy stones. I think he used a double sided carborundum 6" stone and a bench grinder. He was very effective with what he had, he would profile his own blades to make mouldings to fit on his table saw.

    I have a suspicious nature when it comes to taking advise from people that have a commercial interest in the tools they recommend, even more so when they put their name on them. When I read things like "sharpen to 33.5 degrees", micro-bevels, "sharepen to 25000", etc., I tune off. On the other hand, I appreciate the comments and experiences posted in this forum. Yesterday, I read one of Paul Sellers blogs (https://paulsellers.com/2020/03/edge...ning-under-10/) and last night I saw this post, an interesting coincidence. I like his point of view, since it fits the attitude I experienced growing up.

    Rafael

  7. #22
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    One of my friends removed a granite countertop from his mothers kitchen remodel, 2' x 4' long. He made an inquiry to me as if I might want it or be interested in it. Then I suggested how good it might be for a sharpening and honing surface. We checked it with a straight edge and it was pretty darn flat. Now is this as good as the smaller chunks of granite that they sell at the box stores, maybe?, I dunno. But that top, a selection of sand-paper (120 grit to 600 grit), some WD-40 and a $15 honing guide from Lowe's/Home Depot has worked and worked rather well in my opinion. Then I switch to some stones for further honing.

  8. #23
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    Okay, just a mite off topic:

    When I teach fountain pens to children, I bear the entire expense. I purchased about 50 fountain pens to prepare for the summer class. You can be sure that I did not purchase high end pens. One year we made our own with straws, they were not great, did not last long, but they worked. From there they could decide if they wanted to invest the money in a nicer pen for certain types of fancy writing. The pens I hand out are mostly for regular writing with some exceptions.
    Many summers ago we had our grandkids up when our geese were molting. There were a lot of big wing feathers to be had. A search on making quill pens found > http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

    After a little practice my quill cutting got decent enough for some fun:

    Mike With Goose Quill.jpg

    The kids enjoyed these and took them home. There are still a few uncut feathers around.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafael Herrera View Post
    I use my Washita stone and a strop.
    Since you use a Washita, and I should probably just start a new thread rather than create a rabbit hole, I have never used a Washita stone, but, I own some. I own a bunch of stuff, that I was able to find and I wanted to test, I simply have not ahd time.

    I read that the only true Washita is from Norton or Pike, otherwise, it is a soft Arkansas stone. I have no idea how true that is or is not.

    Is your stone branded?

    I own a Smith Washita, a Buck Washita, two Norton #1 Washitas, and at least one Norton Lily White. It is on my list of things to try just because. Before I jump in, I will start a new thread rather than muddy this one with advice on this. I just wanted to post because I am kind of excited to hear that someone is using a Washita.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    when our geese were molting. There were a lot of big wing feathers to be had. A search on making quill pens found > http://www.flick.com/~liralen/quills/quills.html

    After a little practice my quill cutting got decent enough for some fun:

    Mike With Goose Quill.jpg

    The kids enjoyed these and took them home. There are still a few uncut feathers around.
    I never had a sufficient supply of feathers to give it a go. A friend of mine (who is apparently a big deal in the art world) found a feather and did exactly that. Someday I need to give that a try. I might even try tempering the feather (or whatever they call it when they heat it in hot sand) to strengthen it. it would be very cool to cut my own feather quills, and the kids would love it.

  11. #26
    There is no short cut. Wisdom gives you a perspective that's not there when you start. Even a 'cheap oil stone, chisel, and strop' aren't intuitive tools to start with.

    I've concluded there's no short cut here. There's just desire, confusion, inquiry, experimentation, practice, reflection, and iteration.

    Everyone tries to have the final word on sharpening (I'm doing it now myself). But there is no final word. Everyone makes their own journey.

  12. #27
    Don't buy a "cheap" anything! Not even sandpaper. Buy the right item for your intended task and buy the best you can afford. Every time!

    Sharpening is a rabbit hole for sure. I think that the basics in practice and somewhere back from cutting edge (haha) on sharpening tools is a good place to be. You can get excellent results for your $$$

    I have a bench grinder (made in USA!) and the Lee Valley grinding set up with 46 grit and 60 grits wheels, a 12" X 18" granite inspection surface, waterstones and sandpaper. Like Derek I have made many of my own jigs, fixtures and tools to sharpen my blades, scrapers and saws. I accumulated all of the above over the years and bought quality each time, no need to replace anything as my idea of sharp got sharper. Sharpening takes some time and practice to figure out but once you can do it well you'd be surprised how many aspects of everyday life are better for it! Think kitchen, gardening etc.

    Not too many folks begrudge buying tools and equipment and when they do they're half way there. A sharpening kit that works for them makes their tool and equipment investment pay dividends.

    As a metal machinist I can tell you that sharpening can get very expensive, woodworkers have it easy! Phew!

  13. #28
    I started cheap with my sharpening equipment. But I'll bet I spent quite a bit more than if I knew what to purchase in the beginning. I kept learning about equipment and techniques and spent a lot of money on blind alleys. What I wound up with is:

    1. A WorkSharp with diamond plates to establish the primary bevel. I got the WorkSharp cheap when Home Depot had a pricing error.
    2. Shapton stones 1000, 4000 and 8000. I mostly use the 8000 to do the secondary bevel.
    3. A DMT diamond plate which I use to keep the Shaptons flat.

    I've been with that setup for quite a while now and it works well for me.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  14. #29
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    PM me if you want. I don't have labeled stones.

  15. #30
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    it would be very cool to cut my own feather quills, and the kids would love it.
    Yes, it was cool.

    Yes, the kids went crazy having fun with their quills.

    There is hope this can be repeated with more of my grandkids in the future.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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