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Thread: New guy needs some help ID'ing the grooves in the top of the table

  1. #1

    New guy needs some help ID'ing the grooves in the top of the table

    I am a common lurker, but I am now finally posting something.

    I have dabbled in wood working, but am now starting to get further into it. My wife who is away w/ the Army and I have very similar tastes. She likes this table and so do I. I want to make a table similar to this, but without the pull out leaf's. I have no idea how to exectue those leafs and I am still slowly purchasing tools. So the table is here https://www.etsy.com/listing/6704964..._4&frs=1&sca=1

    You can see the grooves on the table top. We really like the mission style (I am from Craftsman heaven...aka the midwest) so I am partial. Thinking about making this as a fixed top, albeit in slightly larger dimensions.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    Waterford, PA
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    423
    I can't see the pictures clearly, but they appear to be a framed panel. If you look up building a 5 piece cabinet door it will give you the gist of the project. If you want a less involved project, you could consider making a pattern and routing a shallow groove. The problem with that is the end grain will show.

  3. #3
    Thank you for the reply. I do not have a shaper or router in my equipment inventory yet, but perhaps that should change. I feel as if I would want to do the 5 piece cabinet door version. Do it right, or do not do it at all.

    Assuming that is white oak, what type of finish do you think that is?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Griswold Connecticut
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    6,600
    5/4 Oak, frame and panel. Fumed finish, with a wiping varnish.

    Main table section is two rails and four stiles, T&G, tongue and grooved. ( It could also be interpreted as 4 rails and two stiles. ) The wings are a 5 piece T&G, framed panel.
    From a design aspect, it's very important that the size of the rails and stiles are "present", or thicker than 3/4". (4/4.)
    One other subtle design element is that the ends are M&T joint, to hide the T&G grooves.
    The panels can be any thickness, up to 5/4, but you're better off staying with 5/4 for mass and strength. Th eT&G has to be adjusted to bring all of the surfaces into the same plane. I would use " Space Balls" to hold the panels and only glue them in the very center of the panel, if at all, so that the panels can float.
    It's simple piece, but the devil is in the execution of all the joints to pull square.
    It can be done with a table saw, using stopped dados, but a router, and benchtop Mortiser would make things easier. A lot depends on how period specific you want to be for construction.
    You want the Benchtop Mortiser for the base anyway, and if your desire is to replicate the Mission/Craftsman styling, you want a benchtop mortiser with a tilting head. I promise. 1:6 is a common mission angle for through tenons.
    I've taken quite a bit of Stickley furniture apart through the years and repaired them. I'm fairly certain of the construction of that piece if was period authentic.
    It looks like a David Rago/ Jerry Mortimer auction piece. I have one similar downstairs in my basement.
    Last edited by Mike Cutler; 03-23-2020 at 8:00 PM.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler View Post
    5/4 Oak, frame and panel. Fumed finish, with a wiping varnish.

    Main table section is two rails and four stiles, T&G, tongue and grooved. ( It could also be interpreted as 4 rails and two stiles. ) The wings are a 5 piece T&G, framed panel.
    From a design aspect, it's very important that the size of the rails and stiles are "present", or thicker than 3/4". (4/4.)
    One other subtle design element is that the ends are M&T joint, to hide the T&G grooves.
    The panels can be any thickness, up to 5/4, but you're better off staying with 5/4 for mass and strength. Th eT&G has to be adjusted to bring all of the surfaces into the same plane. I would use " Space Balls" to hold the panels and only glue them in the very center of the panel, if at all, so that the panels can float.
    It's simple piece, but the devil is in the execution of all the joints to pull square.
    It can be done with a table saw, using stopped dados, but a router, and benchtop Mortiser would make things easier. A lot depends on how period specific you want to be for construction.
    You want the Benchtop Mortiser for the base anyway, and if your desire is to replicate the Mission/Craftsman styling, you want a benchtop mortiser with a tilting head. I promise. 1:6 is a common mission angle for through tenons.
    I've taken quite a bit of Stickley furniture apart through the years and repaired them. I'm fairly certain of the construction of that piece if was period authentic.
    It looks like a David Rago/ Jerry Mortimer auction piece. I have one similar downstairs in my basement.



    Um...where do I start?!

    You want the Benchtop Mortiser for the base anyway, and if your desire is to replicate the Mission/Craftsman styling, you want a benchtop mortiser with a tilting head. I promise. 1:6 is a common mission angle for through tenons.
    Can you expound on this a bit more? Sorry but I truly am a novice in every sense of the word. I also do not own a mortiser lol! I can teach myself how to do the M&T, and I am going to build a router table this week. You lost me on the 1:6 (sorry). I really do not mind going into the weeds on this.

    I have not even thought about the chairs yet, though I suspect being able to build that table would lend me to being able to build the chairs as well. A benchtop band saw is going to be a necessity also I can see.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Rochester, Minn
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    134
    I think that you need to get a set of plans. There 101 details that you won't think of. You won't find a table that exactly matches yours, but you will find several with 4 legs and an apron as their basic structure. "Kitchen worktable" on the New Yankee workshop site, 'harvest table' on fine woodworking web site, etc. It will cost you 15-20 dollars for the plan, but it is money well spent. Then worry about the top. That style is very common for the sides of cabinets and cabinet doors, so use that detail from a cabinet plan.
    Chairs are a big step up. I've made several pieces of furniture, and have a well equipped shop, but haven't yet dared chairs. (Perhaps I'm just chicken, but I think the precision is much greater.)

    Terry T.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Therneau View Post
    I think that you need to get a set of plans. There 101 details that you won't think of. You won't find a table that exactly matches yours, but you will find several with 4 legs and an apron as their basic structure. "Kitchen worktable" on the New Yankee workshop site, 'harvest table' on fine woodworking web site, etc. It will cost you 15-20 dollars for the plan, but it is money well spent. Then worry about the top. That style is very common for the sides of cabinets and cabinet doors, so use that detail from a cabinet plan.
    Chairs are a big step up. I've made several pieces of furniture, and have a well equipped shop, but haven't yet dared chairs. (Perhaps I'm just chicken, but I think the precision is much greater.)

    Terry T.

    Hmm.. very valid points.

    I did not realize that the New Yankee Workshop had plans. In fact I had not thought to look at the webpage or to reference them at all. Time to go look.

  8. #8
    Those grooved are known as crumb catchers.

  9. #9
    I wonder if the mechanism for those pullout leaves is metal or the old type wood. I think I understand how the Amish made those slide in extensions, but I'm not absolutely sure.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Great Pacific Northwest
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    190
    Ryan,

    I am far from a finish expert, so when I found myself in similar circumstances looking for a finish for Quarter Sawn White Oak I did some searching and ran across Jeff Jewittt's Mission Oak Finish guide. https://homesteadfinishingproducts.c...e-pdf-document I am using Sample 6 from his guide since that recipe brought out the grain nicely and darkened the overall tone of the Oak some to enhance the contrast with the ray flecks.

    I used the General Finishes products Jewitt referenced. Here's a raw piece and a finished piece.

    Gerstner.jpg

    Hope that helps a bit.

    Tom

  11. #11
    Is it really that important to have a tilt head mortiser? I mean if you have a fixed head, can you make it work with the 1:6 mission angle on the through tennons?

    I ask because I think I can get a very very lightly used Jet benchtop mortiser for $150-175 a couple hours away from me.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Those grooved are known as crumb catchers.

    And hard to scrape spilled food out of. The American Woodworker@ Bowling Green University's web site builds a couple of tables

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan W Taylor View Post
    Is it really that important to have a tilt head mortiser? I mean if you have a fixed head, can you make it work with the 1:6 mission angle on the through tennons?

    I ask because I think I can get a very very lightly used Jet benchtop mortiser for $150-175 a couple hours away from me.
    Put a wedge on the bed to get the needed tilt.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wrenn View Post
    Put a wedge on the bed to get the needed tilt.
    Do you have something I could reference (photo) to see how that works? Seems to be a pretty square deal on this machine for $175 but then again I might be mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wrenn View Post
    And hard to scrape spilled food out of. The American Woodworker@ Bowling Green University's web site builds a couple of tables
    Nice!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny means View Post
    Those grooved are known as crumb catchers.
    And soup, peanut butter, mashed potatoes, many assorted beverages, etc. They will be disgusting, filth packed germ breading grooves in short order.
    Last edited by Frank Pratt; 03-24-2020 at 4:00 PM.

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