Vintage Shortstroke sliding saws

[David Kumm]

In the 1990s Felder made a short stroke 7 series saw with heavy internals. SCMI SI12 was a great panel short stroke. To be really functional, the base and sliding table extrusion must be stout enough so a sub table doesn't need to stick out in front of the machine and screw up the ergonomics of traditional ripping. That is where most new short stroke saws are lacking. Most old iron short stroke saws had about a 36" crosscut so they handled most cabinet work except the full sheet crosscut. Ply was rare than but I've found that 36" handles about 75% of the needs. Short stroke well built machines are not cheap to make so the cost of the longer stroke comes relatively cheap in comparison. Dave

[Derek Cohen]

It is relevant to add that there are two types of short-stroke sliders.

The first is styled on a traditional European slider wagon, however the wagon is shorter, generally 31” - 51” in length. The wagon travels close to the blade (about 1” away). This slider more easily facilitates being used as a cabinet saw than the sliders with long wagons as the wagon does not interfere much with access. The cabinet saw method is facilitated by locking down the wagon and running work pieces against the rip fence. The wagon remains long enough to use a F&F jig to rip on the wagon.

This is the Jack-of-all-Trades slider style I now have ...



... and why I have spent time upgrading the rip fence with the JessEm Clear Cut Saw Guides, as well as designing and building the Reverse F&F.

Before the K3 came along, my table saw was a contractor type with a crosscut sliding table. I used this for 20 years ...



The slider wagon here also makes it a short-stroke, however this wagon is only designed for crosscutting. The wagon is a good 12” from the blade, and ripping is not really possible.

When I was looking to upgrade my table saw, my first thought was a SawStop with 36” rip fence rails (since I do not need to cut sheets), along with the accessory slider wagon. This would have replicated the second example, my old table saw. The SS would have simply produced a safer and better quality, but similar featured saw. When I first looked at the Hammer K3 short-stroke, I was planning in the 31” model since I did not understand that the slider wagon was for ripping as well. When this became clear, I went as long as I could, while recognising that the longest versions were really designed for sheet goods. The K3 wagon on mine is referred to in the US as 48” but really is 51” in length.

I very much doubt that many would choose a full SawStop set up over the K3 set up I have once they used it for a while. This will not give the sheet good user enough capacity, but it gives the solid wood user a much wider range of choices.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frank Martin]

Derek,

I have a Minimax CU300 Smart combo machine with a 5-ft slider. I have been thinking about the Jessem clear cut saw guides to use the rip fence. I see that you are doing this on your Hammer. I would appreciate if you can share some pictures on how you adapted the guides and also comment on your experience on the Jessem unit....

It is relevant to add that there are two types of short-stroke sliders.

The first is styled on a traditional European slider wagon, however the wagon is shorter, generally 31” - 51” in length. The wagon travels close to the blade (about 1” away). This slider more easily facilitates being used as a cabinet saw than the sliders with long wagons as the wagon does not interfere much with access. The cabinet saw method is facilitated by locking down the wagon and running work pieces against the rip fence. The wagon remains long enough to use a F&F jig to rip on the wagon.

This is the Jack-of-all-Trades slider style I now have ...



... and why I have spent time upgrading the rip fence with the JessEm Clear Cut Saw Guides, as well as designing and building the Reverse F&F.

Before the K3 came along, my table saw was a contractor type with a crosscut sliding table. I used this for 20 years ...



The slider wagon here also makes it a short-stroke, however this wagon is only designed for crosscutting. The wagon is a good 12” from the blade, and ripping is not really possible.

When I was looking to upgrade my table saw, my first thought was a SawStop with 36” rip fence rails (since I do not need to cut sheets), along with the accessory slider wagon. This would have replicated the second example, my old table saw. The SS would have simply produced a safer and better quality, but similar featured saw. When I first looked at the Hammer K3 short-stroke, I was planning in the 31” model since I did not understand that the slider wagon was for ripping as well. When this became clear, I went as long as I could, while recognising that the longest versions were really designed for sheet goods. The K3 wagon on mine is referred to in the US as 48” but really is 51” in length.

I very much doubt that many would choose a full SawStop set up over the K3 set up I have once they used it for a while. This will not give the sheet good user enough capacity, but it gives the solid wood user a much wider range of choices.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Frank

I wrote up the mod I did to use the JessEm here: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....-for-Hammer-K3

It has been a very recent addition, and I am still ironing out a few minor issues. The main one is how to use a push stick when sawing narrow boards. On the wider boards and panels, it has done exactly what the blurb states, that is, force the edge into the fence. This steadies the saw cut and the result is that it ends up with the cleanest edge possible.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Kumm]

DSCN3596.jpgDSCN3597.jpgHere is the PK fe nce and mounts.DSCN3557.jpgDSCN3527.jpgDSCN3525.jpgHere are some for the Whitney 77. The one on the wall has a plate attached to add about 6" to the stroke. The bar on the red gauge is to lock the head to the table and to attach one of Mac's clamps.

The three saws are as follows, Whitney, Wadkin, and Robinson. Dave
DSCN3691.jpgDSCN3534.jpgDSCN3564.jpg

[Frank Martin]

Hi Derek,

Looks great! Thanks for sharing. I am wondering if they also work in the low fence mode. Have you tried it? In the low fence mode, it may not require an adopter to attach if the saw guides can be attached using the t-channel that would be on the topside of the fence extrusion.

Hi Frank

I wrote up the mod I did to use the JessEm here: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....-for-Hammer-K3

It has been a very recent addition, and I am still ironing out a few minor issues. The main one is how to use a push stick when sawing narrow boards. On the wider boards and panels, it has done exactly what the blurb states, that is, force the edge into the fence. This steadies the saw cut and the result is that it ends up with the cleanest edge possible.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Zac wingert]

You should look into finding a saw like Brian holcombe, like others have said. Sounds like it’ll fit your desires as far as balancing the old and new.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Derek,

Looks great! Thanks for sharing. I am wondering if they also work in the low fence mode. Have you tried it? In the low fence mode, it may not require an adopter to attach if the saw guides can be attached using the t-channel that would be on the topside of the fence extrusion.

Frank, the base was designed for the high fence. It would not fit the low fence. In any event, I cannot imagine a scenario for the low fence and JessEm.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Erik Loza]

...I know a few woodworkers here that have added a sliding table attachment to their 10" cabinet saws, and none of them are happy with them...

Joe, there are a several shops on my territory that have cabinet saws with the sliding "attachments" (variety of brands; you would know them) and the owners all say the same thing you are saying. One guy told me, "We don't even use it any more". Apparently does not keep alignment, have to re-square every time, etc. Interesting observation.

Erik

[Brian Holcombe]

A small scale dedicated slider is better than the attachment table in my experience.

[Warren Lake]

the old guy I spent the most time with ran two cabinet saws in his home shop, one for ripping and one with a wooden sleigh for cross cutting. I did the same and made my sleigh so it could cut 4 x 8's, and it worked well enough.

In time on my cross cut saw I put first generation Exalibure sliding tables. difference is I put one on each side. The concept was good. You can have the best slider but you still have to spin the part to cut to length, to me that seemed backwards. Putting a sliding table on each side sped stuff up and no more part spinning, cross cut your end then slide to the right to the stop on the other side cut to length.

The excaliburs to be fair were first generation so primative. They served the purpose fine on smaller stuff and could cut square until there was heavy weight involved. Then they were unpredictable. I spent extra time fitting drawers once as a center gable was out of square a bit so they got fired. They were also a pain to push and at times felt like going to the gym. I clean them up and okay for a bit but just okay. Still mickey mouse.

Im sure i could have gone and bought a new generation Excalibur and it would be smooth and work well but I looked at the price of just one and instead bought a whole complete used sliding saw for way less. Better fence, heavy and smooth, 9HP instead of three, three speeds, large size blade, better dust collection, no comparison saw quality to the cabinet saws.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Brian's saw is sweet. Or something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2EKXk2sXGM. Now I have no idea how one would import one of those Japanese sliding table saws to the US.

[Christian Hawkshaw]

Are the Northfields with the rollertop option good?

[David Kumm]

NF #4 is a good old slider, as is Greenlee 495S, Whitney 77 or 177 ( rare ), Oliver 270, and a few others. The old iron saws last forever but the sliding tables are not as smooth or as tight as the newer type machines. Lateral wobble needs to be dialed out on some and all will be three phase. Upside is the guts are a million times heavier, the bearings are large with high load, the center mounted fences are stout enough for a power feeder to handle, and a 14-16" blade with 5" flanges on the arbor can give a stable cut under stress. Everything has tradeoffs. Dave

[Derek Cohen]

Here is a video of Ishitani in which he uses a (Shimohira?) Japanese short-stroke table saw - which is used for crosscutting. All in the first 4 minutes ...



Regards from Perth

Derek