Vintage Shortstroke sliding saws

[Wakahisa Shinta]

The lower saw on the Tokiwa or Kyoma is often used for cutting tenons or cutting small stocks. During my time of researching this saw and looking at how it is used, I see it is used for making tenon a lot. Jigs can be made for cutting small stock. The small fence is easily adjusted and locked down. The operation appears to require little set up time. The one drawback that I see with using it to cut tenon is that you have to over cut into the shoulders to totally remove the waste of the tenon cheeks, unlike using an american table saw with a tenon cutting jig. However, that is not an issue since it will become hidden in most cases.

Joe and Peter, do you know of any importer or Japanese exporter that is willing to export/import from Japan? I have wanted one for a long time too. I also like their short stroke sliders with the sliding table on the right side. From my perspective, these sliding table saws resemble old British machines.

[Erik Loza]

Curious, is Robland one of the brands? I've had the heavy cast iron Robland sliding attachment on my PM66 for years now and so far it seems to stay aligned well. However, I do not use the saw in a woodworking business and no one but myself touches it.

Yeah, Roblands are pretty beefy. Their short-stroke machines were re-branded and distributed by Powermatic and a couple of others for a while. I didn't realize they did attachments.

Erik

[Peter Kelly]

Joe and Peter, do you know of any importer or Japanese exporter that is willing to export/import from Japan? I have wanted one for a long time too. I also like their short stroke sliders with the sliding table on the right side. From my perspective, these sliding table saws resemble old British machines.

Sadly most of the companies making classical type woodworking machines in Japan are gone however there’s a lot of used stuff out there but you’d be on your own importing it.

If you find yourself in Tokyo, these guys usually have a pretty good inventory:

Tokyo Machine Centre Co., Ltd.
〒 370 - 0014
Saitama Prefecture Kumagaya City
Hakoda 6-17-27
http://www.dougukan.net

Map: https://goo.gl/maps/2shv5zPeDTv

[Mark Hennebury]

Kyowa kiko appears to still be in business.
Many years ago I had the brochures and specs on these machines, I still may have them poked away somewhere.

kyouwa-2.jpg
http://www.kyowa-kiko.co.jp/e_petty.html

https://kyowass.com/index.php?page=9_shujinki

Lots of used dealers in Japan. I have imported machines from Japan without any problem.

https://reuse-west.com/product-categ...nsectionboard/

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Peter, thanks for that link. I have watched most of dougukan videos on their video channel, but could not find their website. I did not think to try .net instead of .com.

Mark, I was hoping your would chime in since you know a lot about Japanese machines. Thanks for the link.

To the OP, I apologize for veering the discussion toward foreign machines. Hopefully, this is somewhat relevant to what you are looking for.

[Mark Hennebury]

Wakahisa,

a couple of links to used machinery dealers that have a saws;

http://www.marushinkiko.com/

http://www.watanabekikai.com/

Peter, thanks for that link. I have watched most of dougukan videos on their video channel, but could not find their website. I did not think to try .net instead of .com.

Mark, I was hoping your would chime in since you know a lot about Japanese machines. Thanks for the link.

To the OP, I apologize for veering the discussion toward foreign machines. Hopefully, this is somewhat relevant to what you are looking for.

[Patrick Kane]

No need to apologize, Wakahisa. I do find tangential conversations beneficial. It’s hard for one person to compare all these older machines against one another. To begin with, they are mildly rare.

[Peter Kelly]

Makita and Hitachi Koki / Hikoki still make a few things as well per Tokyo Machine Center's online store.
https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/d...cdab9a9b5.html

Marunaka is still in business as well.
http://www.marunaka-jp.com/ENG_HP/Surfacer1.htm

[Mark Hennebury]

Peter,

I have been an agent for Marunaka for the past 12 years or so.
Selling new and used supersurfacers. I have done quite a few rebuilds on them also.


I used to have a lot more info on my old website but haven't got around to uploading it all to the new site.

https://www.solidwoodmachinery.com/

Makita and Hitachi Koki / Hikoki still make a few things as well per Tokyo Machine Center's online store.
https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/d...cdab9a9b5.html

Marunaka is still in business as well.
http://www.marunaka-jp.com/ENG_HP/Surfacer1.htm

[Peter Kelly]

Mark, quick question about super surfacers - do any of them utilize disposable knives? It seems as though you'd need to maintain a pretty extraordinary edge to keep one of these machines going..

[Peter Kelly]

Joe and Peter, do you know of any importer or Japanese exporter that is willing to export/import from Japan?

Sorry, missed this earlier.
https://www.tenso.com/en/static/lp_shop_index
https://www.teamww.com
https://www.agility.com

[Mark Hennebury]

Peter,
Yes you can get a disposable knife set for most of the Marunaka's
I have oredered them for a few customers, but never used them myself. From the feedback they do a really good job abd the edge last 3x the standard knife edge.
I have aslo had a few of the knife grinders in my shop. both manual and fully automatic, they do an incredible, job, dual head rough grinder and finish hone. The finish hone is a 1 degree steeper micro bevel, and a true mirror finish, quite something to see and to use.
You need to have flawless blades and clean workspace and work process to get the best from these machines. Also the back-knife setting and correct tool geometry is critical. They are not difficult to use once you get the basic rules down, in fact they are a joy to use.

Mark, quick question about super surfacers - do any of them utilize disposable knives? It seems as though you'd need to maintain a pretty extraordinary edge to keep one of these machines going..

[Wakahisa Shinta]

Mark, my understanding is that Marunaka makes a grinder for the disposable knives. I suppose you can not grind the disposable knives too many times, but how many times can you grind them? Does it make economic sense to purchase the grinder, which is probably expensive, for the disposable knives?

Do you still have the MG-500 grinder? I remember watching your demonstration video some time ago.

Thank you for the URLs, Peter and Mark.

Peter,
Yes you can get a disposable knife set for most of the Marunaka's
I have oredered them for a few customers, but never used them myself. From the feedback they do a really good job abd the edge last 3x the standard knife edge.
I have aslo had a few of the knife grinders in my shop. both manual and fully automatic, they do an incredible, job, dual head rough grinder and finish hone. The finish hone is a 1 degree steeper micro bevel, and a true mirror finish, quite something to see and to use.
You need to have flawless blades and clean workspace and work process to get the best from these machines. Also the back-knife setting and correct tool geometry is critical. They are not difficult to use once you get the basic rules down, in fact they are a joy to use.

[Mark Hennebury]

Wakahisa, Marunaka do make a grinder for the disposable knives, but I really don't know anything about that one. I would think that you are correct in assuming that you can only sharpen them a few times.

I sold the MG-500 grinder, and still regret it after several years. It is fully automatic and did a beautiful job, on any straight knives for supersurfacer, jointers, thickness-planers and hand-plane blades. You certainly get use to having a grinder like that in your shop, and really miss it when its gone.
New grinders are not cheap. But there is not much point to have a tool unless you can sharpen it, so it is worth having a grinder. You quickly get used to popping your blades on the grinder and having razor sharp blades for every project. Its a nice way to work.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

We really veered off course! Getting back to the topic of the thread.

Are the various manufacturers of Japanese short-stroke slider equivalent in quality of their machines?

The little information that I have read and photographs that I have seen indicates some machines are better made than others. The number 1300 comes up very often. The current Kyoma machines appear in picture less robust compared to the older versions. In contrast, the old Tokai and Dainichi Seiko saws are the ones that I feel were made with heavier cast material.