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Thread: Vintage Shortstroke sliding saws

  1. #1
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    Vintage Shortstroke sliding saws

    This question is specific to a Wadkin PP 450, but im sure it has general appeal to all vintage cast iron sliders. This particular saw is missing the quadrant/crosscut fence. If it is anything like the Wadkin PK parts/accessories then there isnt a chance of finding such an accessory. However, im not necessarily attached to OEM parts. In fact, after using a modern felder crosscut extrusion with stops and a scale, i cant imagine wanting to lose all those features on a vintage saw. Has anyone personally fabricated a crosscut fence for their vintage saw? If so, do you have pictures documenting the design? It seems pretty simple to use incra/80/20 extrusion with off the shelf stops, but im concerned about mounting to the sliding table and squaring to the blade. I dont have one of these saws in my possession to think it through, and i also dont want to buy the saw without thinking through how to replace the crosscut fence. The old catch 22.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    This question is specific to a Wadkin PP 450, but im sure it has general appeal to all vintage cast iron sliders. This particular saw is missing the quadrant/crosscut fence. If it is anything like the Wadkin PK parts/accessories then there isnt a chance of finding such an accessory. However, im not necessarily attached to OEM parts. In fact, after using a modern felder crosscut extrusion with stops and a scale, i cant imagine wanting to lose all those features on a vintage saw. Has anyone personally fabricated a crosscut fence for their vintage saw? If so, do you have pictures documenting the design? It seems pretty simple to use incra/80/20 extrusion with off the shelf stops, but im concerned about mounting to the sliding table and squaring to the blade. I dont have one of these saws in my possession to think it through, and i also dont want to buy the saw without thinking through how to replace the crosscut fence. The old catch 22.
    A few folks are making replacement quadrants and protractor for the PK and the PP so there are options there.

    B

  3. #3
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    Canadianwoodworking.com is the place to look for all things Wadkin. The PP has a T slot for a miter gauge so you can have a bar made to fit to any larger old gauge and use it. I have several and keep one fixed at 90. On my PK, I had two tapped holes near the front of the slider. I drilled one out for an eccentric bushing, tapped a set screw in the side of the table to lock it, and use a proscale digital fence. doesn't work for angles though. Check that the sliding table is flat. Great system if it is but evidently some tables had issues. Some were belt and some were DD. Dave

  4. #4
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    No experience with a PP or PK but I don’t see why a modern double miter could not be mounted to the sliding table on these. They are made to mount to the edge of the sliding table and you would probably need to fabricate a bracket of some sort. Nothing bolts on with these, they are just held with a cam lever. This makes for quick on and off. I think this would be more accurate and versatile than the original quadrant on these. They are more for small work and the fence stops only go out to a little less than 5’.
    A long cross fence on these might be difficult since they do not have a outrigger.

    93246FA9-B713-4742-9658-A92F7AFD8971.jpg

  5. #5
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    Yes, i definitely want a shorter fence. This is in a walking corridor where a 4'+ crosscut fence would be a PITA. My felder combo has the long cross cut fence, and outrigger, so this saw would be redundant. More or less to replace my powermatic 72 as the primary ripping saw and dado saw. The powermatic is ok, but i like working on machines, and am always curious about other makes. Never owned a wadkin machine before. I am curious about the hype.

  6. #6
    I never sold many short-stroke sliders back in the "Italian Days" but the shops who did buy them, swore by them. Always some super-beefy chassis and overhead guard, big blade, and this 4' slider. Crazy.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  7. #7
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    Erik, the precision for cross cutting is what it is and could very well have been the most attractive feature for the repeatability...which is likely better than even the most fine tuned crosscut solution that uses miter slots on a North American style saw. It's what I use the most on my own slider, honestly. If I ever had to downsize, I'd go with a short stroke slider over any NA style cabinet saw, personally.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  8. #8
    Jim, it must be a European thing. For example, the "base configuration" on many of our sliders is essentially your short-stroke machine. We (the US side) spec them up with 9' or 10' sliders, etc., but the default configuration is a short-stroke machine in a lot of cases. I still see Robland sliders, which have a pretty beefy chassis, with 5' sliders from time to time in shops. I haven't sold one yet but we just released a 700-Series slider that takes a 16" blade but can be had with a 48" slider.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  9. #9
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    It can be difficult to mount on the edge of an old short stroke as the table is cast iron with little lip on the edge to support stuff. The miter gauge slot with a head that locks down is the easiest. I've also bought offcuts of 60x60 extrusions and bought some Grizzly stops that fit. Many of their saws use a 60x60 . They are fairly reasonable and fairly stout. Dave

  10. #10
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    Erik, I suspect that from a market perspective, when we say "slider", folks immediately think about the 8-10' wagon versions. I think if there was more visibility around short-stroke sliders and their benefits, more would sell. There's definitely been a perceivable (albeit small) uptick in interest for smaller sliders here in the forum to my mind as more and more folks embrace the format (pardon the general expression ) and post about how they are using their machines. But the large space requirements are a challenge for many folks. Maybe more "base configurations" would sell into the US market if more folks knew about them since they provide the slider accuracy for cross cutting and more traditional ripping in the same package.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #11
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    I have a short stroke slider and could not be happier. The machine is great for crosscutting.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #12
    are you not seeing short stroke sliders as two different types. The Wadkin types where they are geared to solid or the SCM types where there is an outrigger and they are panel and solid. Even in these short stroke like the SCM I have they had different models, one would take a mitre gauge, the one I have does not. I havent looked super close but think anything could be adapted to this one. There are threaded holes in different places and easy to bolt whatever type of jig on there. I can stand behind this and use it like a cabinet saw, the only neg I see is the blade is pretty far into the table compared to a cabinet saw so you have to extend more.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    ...Maybe more "base configurations" would sell into the US market if more folks knew about them since they provide the slider accuracy for cross cutting and more traditional ripping in the same package.
    Jim, you are absolutely right about exposure being the issue. That's been the case since Day-1 with Euro machines. Not long ago, I priced out "a well known cabinet saw that has a unique safety feature" while talking with a customer about table saws. Somewhat surprisingly, if I spec'ed that one out to be close to a Hammer equivalent, the price was very almost the same and of course, theirs had only a sliding attachment rather than a true slider. I think there will always be that "if I had only know then" factor.

    Erik
    Felder USA Territory Representative: Central & South Texas

  14. #14
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    Eric, I went through this process three years ago. It was a choice between the Hammer K3 31” x 31” Basic, vs the SS with 36” rip fence/outfeed and slider accessory. These are a very similar price. I ended up with a 49” Winner and the 31” Pro rip fence/ outfeed (actually 51” wagon), about a third more.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  15. #15
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    Before undertaking the rebuild of my 10" General cabinet saw, I looked very seriously at buying a small slider. I absolutely agree that the ability to accurately cut multiple smaller panels is a very appealing feature for most serious amateur woodworkers-that's why I found it very odd when the local shop that sells this type of equipment worked very hard to try to talk me into buying one of the full-size sliders that they import/stock, even though I simply do not have the space for one. I know a few woodworkers here that have added a sliding table attachment to their 10" cabinet saws, and none of them are happy with them. I think that there definitely is a market for a sliding saw with a short (4' to 5') capacity max. My track saw would likely not have been bought.

    Regards,

    Joe H.

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