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Thread: Wiring a phase perfect. Internet don’t loose your poop on me.

  1. #1

    Wiring a phase perfect. Internet don’t loose your poop on me.

    Patrick- a clamp meter does not work around multiple legs, designed to test one, that number is still correct for total amp draw.

  2. #2
    So I gotta go google clamp meter. But I’m using this...

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...M100/202565780

    I first noticed my problem after getting everything wired.

    I went to flip the in switch on the t23 and it would not move. I was gonna have to force it and feared I’d break it. I could hear a light hiss/hum whatever of the phase perfect and no breakers popped so I assumed I had gotten everything right. Not knowing why the on off switch would not turn I inspected the electrical panel of the shaper itself and still nothing stood out.

    I then grabbed the voltage meter and tested my now 250v 30amp 3 phase outlet running out of my 3 phase panel down wind of my 10 hp phase perfect. I got 120 only. I went back to the 3 phase panel, still only one 120 at each leg. Then back to the phase perfect, the same 120, then to the knife shutoff between my houses sub panel I’m running my phase perfect off and still 120 on each leg of the knife shutoff and nothing at both legs. So I then tested the sub panel I’m running out of with a 60amp breaker off my houses 100amp main panel. I found only 120 off each leg then zero off them combined.

    I can get pictures. I’d love to resolve this myself as the electrician I can get is two weeks out minimum and who knows what could happen between now and then. Beyond that I’m not gonna be thrilled to invite anyone into my house anytime soon as I’m just that wacko I guess lol..



    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Patrick- a clamp meter does not work around multiple legs, designed to test one, that number is still correct for total amp draw.

  3. #3
    You said amps earlier, only way to check amps is a clamp meter.

    Don't check anything other than leg to leg for volts. A-B A-C, B-C.

  4. #4

    Wiring a phase perfect. Internet don’t loose your poop on me.

    Ok so I’m pretty much posting this as I know a few around here can help me figure this out even if the answer is I need a electrician. I’m reluctant to post for obvious reasons but I don’t suspect I’m gonna invite a electrician into my house anytime soon.

    I figured out and worked what you see from the knife shutoff over to the right myself.

    I had the knife shutoff wired into a 60 amp 240 V breaker in my sub panel, you will notice the breaker is there and the wires from the knife shutoff now loose and taped off. Anyway when I had it all hooked up I went to try and start my new shaper and the on off switch was impossible to turn. I checked everything I could off the list then determined maybe I wasn’t getting power to the machine and the machine needed power to allow me to turn the on off switch?

    As a result i got out voltage meter set it to 200V and checked everything starting at the outlet the machine was plugged into. From the machines outlet all the way back to the 60 amp breaker in my panel I got a reading of only 120V at each leg when one terminal touching ground and the other a live leg. When I touch both terminals to a live leg I got no reading.

    I then did some research that suggested a sub panel does not have neutral bus bar and that to produce 240 I needed to be pulling not 120 off each buss bar. However my sub panel looks to me to have red/black feeding the breakers with a ground rod left and white neutral bus bar right. So what gives I’m at a complete loss and I’m not gonna burn my house down trying to figure this out unless the oversight is obvious and someone can easily spot my issue.

    Honestly I was nervous to do this much on my own but found it very very easy. Well until I only got 120 and my machine would not run.

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  5. #5
    And the spot i think my new lathe will go. It’s sadly like 3” short so I’ll have to hack away at the cabinets. Or move my toolbox to this spot and out the lathe on the adjacent wall.

    9AE98435-FAA2-4CBA-9C5D-4FF6D99DACD3.jpg

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    So I gotta go google clamp meter. But I’m using this...

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...M100/202565780

    ... I got 120 only. ... still only one 120 at each leg. ... the same 120, ...
    Moved from other thread; reviewing pics now.

    *****************************

    Seems pretty clear you are measuring volts, not amps (current draw :: with a 'clamp on' :: some meters will measure current with an add-on clamp-on - no pun intended).

    You need to tbl-sht the supply side to PP. Just to be clear, you need to measure from each hot leg (black) to either GND or Neutral (N)(white). You should get 120V hot-to-gnd (or N) on both legs; 240V hot-to-hot. I sure sounds like when you do this, you get 0V (zero) on the latter - - and I too would think this is the same leg/phase on both wires.


    Can you find/measure 240V off a 2-pole breaker at your main panel?
    • If you're comfortable with this, pull the main panel cover and check (or get pic) of the main CB. Maybe if old enough house, you only have 120V service....???

    Do you have any 220V-240V anywhere on the premises? (I'll use 240V)
    At any appliance (range/stove/HVAC/dryer..??
    Is there a 2-pole CB in the main feeding the sub-panel you PP is ultimately tied to?
    Can you measure 240V on ^this CB?
    Or, is the sub-panel fed from a 1-pole CB?? (eek!)
    Or, is the sub-panel fed from 2 separate 1-pole CBs?? (EEEEKKK!!)

    Any pics?

  7. #7
    Ok so first a closeup photo of my 100 amp main panel.

    A50863AA-BF45-45DC-858D-E90B4FE0F45C.jpg

    Then one of the 100 amp 120/240v breaker or main shutoff the meter on the outside of my house is wired into.

    289F2144-6CC3-4716-9902-04A4834FF950.jpg

    Then a photo of the 60 amp 120/240v breaker feeding my sub panel.

    64C4DE8F-C511-4E23-8460-ABBA3C1663CD.jpg

    I tested the main 100 amp breaker and I correct myself I don’t get one when I test both legs of all this work I get 1. Specifically 1 then a space then a period.

    I then looked to see what my dryer my stove and my central air run off. All breakers are labeled 120/240v. I then unplugged my dryer and checked it with the meter. I again I get 120v at each hot leg but the same 1. When I touch both hots.

    Hmmm,,

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Tippecanoe County, IN
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    836
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    As a result i got out voltage meter set it to 200V and checked everything starting at the outlet the machine was plugged into. From the machines outlet all the way back to the 60 amp breaker in my panel I got a reading of only 120V at each leg when one terminal touching ground and the other a live leg. When I touch both terminals to a live leg I got no reading.
    With the meter set to the 200V range I wouldn't really expect much of a reading with 240V applied. Do you have a higher range you can try?
    Beranek's Law:

    It has been remarked that if one selects his own components, builds his own enclosure, and is convinced he has made a wise choice of design, then his own loudspeaker sounds better to him than does anyone else's loudspeaker. In this case, the frequency response of the loudspeaker seems to play only a minor part in forming a person's opinion.
    L.L. Beranek, Acoustics (McGraw-Hill, New York, 1954), p.208.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    ..., I get 1. Specifically 1 then a space then a period.

    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    With the meter set to the 200V range I wouldn't really expect much of a reading with 240V applied. Do you have a higher range you can try?
    I think David has it. The "1." displayed is probably an over-range indication for the meter. Need next setting.

    Add: Just reviewed the online manual for the linked meter; use the '600' setting (with the wave (AC), not the bar-over-dash (DC) symbol).

    Please don't get in over your head here!!! No offence, but your info so far has me worried.
    Last edited by Malcolm McLeod; 03-14-2020 at 3:29 PM.

  10. #10
    Turn it to 600v setting.

  11. #11
    I kinda figured but the dam meter does not have a 240v setting. So is that the first of my problems. Do I need to go risk infection and get a different meter?

    Quote Originally Posted by David L Morse View Post
    With the meter set to the 200V range I wouldn't really expect much of a reading with 240V applied. Do you have a higher range you can try?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    I kinda figured but the dam meter does not have a 240v setting. So is that the first of my problems. Do I need to go risk infection and get a different meter?
    Turn it to 600, it's right next to 200

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Lake Gaston, Henrico, NC
    Posts
    8,973
    Show picture of meter. It should have a setting higher than 200V. Typically, there would be a 600v setting. The setting needs to be more than the voltage you're trying to test.

  14. #14
    Bingo!

    Ok guys go easy on me.

    I know I’m slightly in over my head but I know and have observed the basic and simple rules. I have not gotten electrocuted or burnt the house down. I have not even tripped a breaker. I put all the stupid couplings per code. Got my wire gauge and breaker amperage correct.

    And with the meter set to 600V I get 240v.

    So why the hell cant I turn the knob to my shaper.

    Anyone have a t23 that can tell me if there is some magic hocus pocus I have to do to turn the thing. I’ve tried depressing and turning, pulling and turning. Looking in the machines panel for a override of some sort or reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Turn it to 600v setting.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    ...
    Ok guys go easy on me.
    ....

    And with the meter set to 600V I get 240v.
    ...
    Sorry, we can't see each other typing, so it looks like we collectively puked on you...

    So, first things first. Do you have 240V/3-phase at the plug to machine? If so, I bow out as I don't know the secret hand-shake for this whiz-bang.

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