Cycling your DC frequently

[ChrisA Edwards]

I've got a Jet 1.5HP 110v DC, that has been converted to two stage with an Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL and a 55 gallon drum beneath. All my ducting is 5" metal HVAC pipe, which are currently fed by 4" manual blast gates.

This has been working great for the past 5 years for my hobbyist use.

The only weak area is where the shavings drop out of the cyclone into the drum. If I'm planing 8"+ wide boards, 8'+ long, the 4" flex hose has no problem keeping up with the tool, (A3-31) but puts so many shavings, at the exit drop of the cyclone, that it occasionally clogs.

I usually have to walk over and shake my debris drum a little to clear this clog, not a huge deal and it's rare that I'm doing a lot of these size of boards.

For other operations, where I'm making sawdust rather than volumes of shavings, it works great.

My DC is triggered via an iVac switch, so cycles on an off as I use a power tool. This means I can sometimes cycle in 30+ times and hour.

I have 230V available, so if I was to replace this system with say a CV1800 or similar, can those units handle the cycling that my current system seems to handle with ease? If I were to update, I would most likely change all my existing ducting to 6".

Thanks.

[glenn bradley]

My 2HP Grizzly G0440 gets cycled frequently. Nothing like 30 times an hour but, several times an hour during milling operations. I've been doing this for about 12 years.

[Andrew More]

I've got a Grizzly G0443, cycle it several times per hour, no issues yet. I've only had it a year or two. I believe at one point Oneida was issuing some warnings about doing this, but somebody looked into it, and they were thinking more at the factory level, with 40 hour work weeks, over the course of several years, rather than the usual weekend warrior stuff.

[Frank Pratt]

Speaking generally, the bigger the motor, the fewer cycles/hour it can tolerate. But even at just 1 1/2 HP, 30/hour is probably more than is good for it. A 5 HP motor would not last long doing that. Something like a table saw motor will fare much better because the load has much less inertia. My 3 HP table saw comes up to speed very quickly, much less than a second, but the 5 HP blower takes a few seconds. It's the long start time that cooks a motor.

[George Yetka]

i have the cv1800 and have no issue with 5-6 times an hour manually. Mines on the factory remote so i never bothered with ivac and all my small hand tool stuff is on a festool vac with dust deputy.
The problem with alot of cycling would be if the motor didnt wind down before restarting. If you did move to a bigger unit I would recommend a small vac for handheld power tools.Cheaper to run/ faster to power up/quieter/if your venting outside you dont have to empty all your heat for a minute of sanding

I had the super dust deputy xl on my HF 2hp with the same joiner and would frequently have to remove the lid of the can and reach my arm up in to let the dust free. Didnt enjoy that but it beet climbing in the attic to empty bag.

[John K Jordan]

I use the 5hp ClearVue. I was told to try to cycle no more than 6 times an hour with a motor that size. I tend to leave the DC on and shut the blast gate when moving between tools or if I’m going to use it again in a little while. The motor pulls less current and runs cooler when the blast gates are closed.

i have the cv1800 and have no issue with 5-6 times an hour manually. Mines on the factory remote so i never bothered with ivac and all my small hand tool stuff is on a festool vac with dust deputy.
The problem with alot of cycling would be if the motor didnt wind down before restarting. If you did move to a bigger unit I would recommend a small vac for handheld power tools.Cheaper to run/ faster to power up/quieter/if your venting outside you dont have to empty all your heat for a minute of sanding

I had the super dust deputy xl on my HF 2hp with the same joiner and would frequently have to remove the lid of the can and reach my arm up in to let the dust free. Didnt enjoy that but it beet climbing in the attic to empty bag.

[ChrisA Edwards]

The motor pulls less current and runs cooler when the blast gates are closed.

That seems counter intuitive. When you cover the end of a vacuum hose, you hear the motor load up normally. I guess you need a certain amount of resistance to stop the motor spinning up too fast.


For my small tools, I use a Festool vacuum.

When I said 30 cycles an hour, that's probably excessive and the max that would happen, although turning my saw on and off, on average, every 2 minutes, doesn't seem over excessive. I guess when I'm in that mode, I'd just leave the DC running, something I do now when ripping a board and then jointing that freshly ripped edge. I just don't want to update and find myself restricted.

Also George, as you have the CV1800, how did you find the noise difference between you old HF and the CV1800? My Jet isn't super loud right now, but I could totally re-arrange my ducting runs to where I could put a Cv1800 in a somewhat sound proof closet.

[Malcolm McLeod]

That seems counter intuitive. When you cover the end of a vacuum hose, you hear the motor load up normally. ....

What you hear is the motor unloading. The air flow across the fan stalls and since the motor is accelerating much less air mass, there is less work > less current > less heat > etc..

[ChrisA Edwards]

What you hear is the motor unloading. The air flow across the fan stalls and since the motor is accelerating much less air mass, there is less work > less current > less heat > etc..

Thanks, that makes sense.

[Frank Pratt]

The problem with alot of cycling would be if the motor didnt wind down before restarting.

Actually, if you're just going to be starting it up right away, it's better to do so before it runs down to a stop. Waiting for it to stop just means the start phase will be that much longer.

[Ken Parris]

Chris as you have said it makes sense and John and Malcolm are both correct. I managed an engineering department for several years. We manufactured industrial plants that had dust collectors (baghouses) that had exhaust fans with radial blades up to 72" diameter. The big ones required twin 300 hp motors. They pulled so much power coming up to speed that we started the first up in steps and when it came up to speed started the second one. This dimmed the lights in nearby homes. We put the plants in running stops sometimes, but didn't want to stop the fans because of having to repeat the starting again. So we closed the dampers, the hp dropped, and the amperage dropped. Also when starting up the fans the dampers were closed to reduce the starting load. You would help your dust collector motor a little if you started it with the gates closed, although probably not enough to worry about it.

[Bill Dufour]

10-12 starts per hour is a good rule of thumb for longer motor life. Many air compressors are continuous run for this reason.
Bil lD

[John K Jordan]

10-12 starts per hour is a good rule of thumb for longer motor life. Many air compressors are continuous run for this reason.
Bil lD

Are you referring to all motors? I thought the recommendations depended on the motor, hp, load, and application.

[Justin Rapp]

Is there a way to bypass that switch so you can leave the DC running if you are doing a lot of continues work that requires cycling of the woodworking tool? I know their is 'noise pollution' but that i what earplugs are for.

[ChrisA Edwards]

Is there a way to bypass that switch so you can leave the DC running if you are doing a lot of continues work that requires cycling of the woodworking tool? I know their is 'noise pollution' but that i what earplugs are for.

Yes, I can either start up my DC using the auto switch, DC powers on as the tool starts and powers off about 10 seconds after the tool power is turned off, or set the DC to manual on/off and, as you suggest, and leave it running while I complete several cuts or other operations that may require some tool adjustment.

So yes, I could work around the limitation of not having the DC run quite so sporadically.