Advise requested, Building First Cabinet with Drawers

[Kenny Southerland]

I am building my first cabinet with drawers. I have a Robuo style workbench with flip up wheels I made in the fall and I am adding a cabinet to the bottom of it with drawers for storage. I assembled the cabinet and it came together pretty square. Placed the cabinet on the bottom of the workbench and then started on the drawers.

I did a test run with the 1st drawer following assembly and after the glue had completely dried. I set the drawer it in the cabinet and attempted to place the drawer slides next to it in order to confirm the fit. Turns out I made my first drawer too wide (I can only image your shock.) Since I had already glued the drawer together I shaved off one side of the drawer. Now it looks like I took off too much. As I said, the drawer is already glued together, but I did not yet attach the front. Everything is made out of 3/4" (19mm) 7 layer birch plywood.

I figure this is a "just take your medicine" kind of situation and I need to just rebuild the drawer. I thought before I did something (else) drastic I should ask for some advise. Is there a way to salvage this? If not any advise for attempt 2?

I tried using shims which didn't work out too well for me. Then I cut a strip about 1/16 on the table saw and tried to install the inner portion of the slide on top of that. That didn't work out well. The drawer was tight at the back and on one side of the drawer the inner slide popped out of the outer slide when I pulled the drawer out about half way.

I was thinking I could assemble the next attempt with pocket holes, confirm proper installation, and then take it apart and glue it. That way if I make it too big again I could just take the drawer apart, trim the necessary pieces, then reassemble and test again, repeat until it fits right, then glue up and reattach the inner rails to the holes I used previously to get a successful assembly.

Thought and ideas requested. Thanks in advance everyone.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hang it on the wall as a reminder - stick a sign on it that says - - 1/2" on each side, less than the opening width.

BTW - pocket screws for drawers are a good thing, but, you will have to redrill them if you have to trim the size down to fit.
Been there/done that - almost had the drawer to hang up on the wall of the shop....

(Soooooo - in answer to your unasked question (which would be - did you do the same thing?) - - I feel your pain since I did the same with half a dozen drawers I pocket hole screwed & glued and assembled - prior to checking the fit.....)

[Lee Schierer]

My suggestion is measure twice cut once. Then do it again. Check your cabinet for squareness Before you cut and glue up a drawer. A story stick works well for this,much better than a tape measure. If you are using a carpenters square, very few of the new ones are truly square and the aluminum ones will go out of square anytime they are dropped or fall of the bench. Check yours regularly before use. Any piece of ply wood with one factory edge at least 30" long and 20" wide can be used.

Finally if you make a mistake, and we all do. Walk away from the project for a while and then come back and determine the problem. If you make a second mistake walk away for a day or two.

[Prashun Patel]

Lots of ways to mitigate this next time.

False front drawers allow you to build the box a little undersized. Many runners will have tabs where the screws mount that self shim to accommodate minor gaps.

Dovetailed or box joint drawers can make it easier to measure because the front is the width of the opening.

Always re read the instructions of the runners because they will usually tell you the exact math you need.

I don’t advise dry fitting with pocket screws before gluing. The fit will be off between both methods.

[Jim Becker]

I always build the case before I construct the drawers...it's a habit that helps insure exact measurements are available. Remember, sheet goods are not actually 1/2" or 3/4" thick so basing your drawer box size on exact measurements, including required slide clearance (generally .5" but not always) makes sure you stay within the tolerance of the slides. Sometimes you can shave down a drawer box when it's made from solid stock and depending on construction method. But that's not really a viable option for drawer boxes made from sheet goods so in that case, your best option is to remake the drawer boxes to fit the case and then make another cabinet that has an inside dimension suitable for the drawers you original made to preserve that investment in time and materials. And you get a second cabinet.

[michael dilday]

If your drawer is binding when pushed in and the slide is separating when pulled out it sounds like your cabinet is not square. Wider at the front than the rear. You must make sure both slides are parallel and square - one not installed forward of the other. I would square them up using shims on either the front or the rear to get them square and parallel. Then measure for the drawer. The last slides I installed had a tolerance of 1" to 1 1/16" so they have to be precise. There is a good chance you can save the drawer but first you have to get the cabinet side of the slides right before you even think about a drawer.

[Paul F Franklin]

It seems like the shim should have worked if the only issue was a too small drawer box (after you trimmed it). I'd double check that the width of the opening is consistent in the front, middle and back, and the width of the drawer is also consistent front to back. If either off by more than maybe a fat 1/32 you are going to have to shim with a tapered shim (or multiple shims of slightly different thickness). Drawer slides need to be parallel to work smoothly and if the opening or drawer box isn't consistent you will have the kind of trouble you describe.

Yeah it sucks to have to remake the box, but it would suck more to remake it and still have it not work well.

[Robert Engel]

I would start by checking the drawer and opening for square. If the drawer isn't square I would either disassemble or start over. If the cabinet isn't square unfortunately you have a bigger problem

We've all made drawers that don't fit. I have corrected wide drawers by making a rabbet for the drawer side runner to fit in. Sneak up till you get the right fit.

A loose fit can be corrected by using thin shims like veneer behind the runner.

With some brands of drawer slides I get better results subtracting 1 1/32" rather than exactly 1" as recommended by the manufacturer.

But I think you're real issue here is out of square.

[Mark Hockenberg]

I'm with Robert and Michael - It sounds like the carcass may be out of square. If you measure the opening at the front and back and check for square with a square, you'll know. Once you have a square cabinet you may be able to re-use the drawer if it's square. Using veneer as Robert suggested is a great fix. A piece of laminate is also great as a shim. I always keep laminate cutoffs around - they come in handy.

[johnny means]

It would help to know what slides your using. Standard side mounts call for 1" of clearance, .5" on either side. I've never scene it not work. Undermounts are a little trickier, but always work, if built to spec. on the occasion that my drawers are a tad small, I'll adjust with layere of tape on the slide. Trim them neatly, anmd jno one will ever notice.

[Kenny Southerland]

Wow, y'all are amazing. I have to admit I am overwhelmed, in a good way. I asked this question in a couple other woodworking forums and basically got no reply except for one guy telling me not to ever use pocket holes. Pocket holes may not be "real" joinery, and they are not a one size fits all solution, but I love them.

I work IT and I walked into work on Monday and got handed an emergency project to prepare our organization for Corona virus impacts. Its a 2 month project we need done in about 2 1/2 weeks. Then later that day I got a second highly critical project handed to me because one of our international offices is not being directly impacted by Corona Virus already. I'm in the US; its been about 58 hours, and 3 nights' sleep, since I posted my question and I have worked over 40 of that 58 hours.

I hope to be coming back to this in about two weeks. IDK how long a thread stays open on this site as it is my first time to post, but hopefully it will stay open long enough. In the meantime, I am working from home, so hopefully I will manage to get 30 minutes to go out to the garage and check on the how square the cabinet is. From your responses I have a feeling you guys are on to something there.

I know the cabinet was square sitting on top of the workbench following assembly, but now I am wondering if the rails the cabinet is sitting on are out of alignment, or if the cabinet is being squeezed somehow. I didn't have to kick it in place or anything, but it was a little bit of a tight fit when I placed the cabinet on the rails under the workbench. The cabinet is only a 4 sided rectangle, it is fully open on the bottom and the front so I could see how it would not take much pressure to move it out of square. I'll be checking that first. Any suggestions for that? I was thinking I should probably look at putting a bottom on the cabinet since it is on a mobile workbench I use in my garage, and my 20 year old garage floor is most definitely not flat.

Thanks,
Kenny

[Jim Becker]

Kenny, Pocket Holes/Screws absolutely are "real" joinery just like butt joints and screws are real joinery, especially with plywood. Used in correctly and in situations where they are appropriate, they work well, are easy to use and make for fast assembly. That said, keeping things square still applies no matter how simple or how complex. Get that case square and the drawers square and things go together easy. (assuming one measures twice and cuts once. LOL) A tiny out of square makes for, um....bad words.

Please consider becoming a Contributor by clicking on the "Donate" link up at the top of the page. It will give you access to photos, private messaging and the classifieds. It's only six bucks. SMC has been here for over 17 years now and the community remains very helpful to both newbies and experienced folks alike.

[Kenny Southerland]

Pocket Holes/Screws absolutely are "real" joinery just like butt joints and screws are real joinery

EXACTLY!!!!!

I will definitely be giving a donation. Thanks, Jim.

[Kenny Southerland]

I finally had a chance to come back to this and wanted to come back and say thank you to everyone for the help.

Everyone who said the cabinet carcass was out of square was correct. It was very slight. The carcass was narrowing from back to front by appox. 5mm or 3/16th. I have rebuilt the carcass and now have three drawers installed that slide in and out as they are supposed to. Made some different mistakes here and there, but learned a lot along the way. The first two drawers were functional, but not as pretty as I wanted. By the time I got to the third drawer I not only built it correctly for function and ascetics, but I also built it in a reasonable amount of time that didn't force me to take a break due to hunger.

It took me a while, but I finally found the root cause of my carcass being out of square, other than the fact that I didn't freaking check it. As a part of going back to this I did a tune up of my table saw, which is still new-ish to me, and took it to up a level. I normally would adjust my table saw for 90* with a trisquare. My wife recently bought me one of those digital angle gauges to ensure your saw blade is as perfectly close to the angle desired as possible, and I also bought myself a better quality square from iGaging instead of the $8 one I got at Lowes. I was using the digital gauge and the square together when I noticed the digital gauge said 90*, but the square would show that I had a minute gap between the square and the bottom of the saw blade. After a few minutes I found that my table saw's throat plate was sitting slight proud on one side. It was so small that you couldn't see it, and I couldn't even feel the difference with my hand at 1st. The throat plate sitting tall made my cuts off, so that when I joined the carcass with pocket holes the angles of the joins were off as well.

Thanks again all.

Also, @Jim I joined the site for one year this morning.

[Jim Becker]

'Glad it worked out, Kenny. Every project brings new things to learn, whether one is a beginner or has many years of experience.

And thank you for your Contributor status.