HD framing lumber gumming up jointer/planer/table saw

[glenn bradley]

I think the bigger question would be who in their right mind would be trying to "joint" framing lumber in the first place? Its a fools errand.

I agree. Despite many articles in the trade rags on "saving money" by buying lumber at the BORG, I have never had good luck with it. I acclimated dimensional lumber for a couple of months in my SoCal gara. . . er, shop and the material still moved to an unacceptable degree once I made something out of it. thank goodness it was only a workbench base.

I would not put HD softwood lumber through any of my woodworking machines.

This falls under 'use as intended'. Job site saws and tools for construction lumber. Other tools for furniture making. As mentioned above, I quickly found out how much cheaper poplar, alder or maple from the lumber yard was once you factored in the waste and clean up from "cheap" material.

Do yourself a favor, buy smart, not cheap.

[Jim Becker]

poplar's softness often results in fuzzy edges and surfaces.

I've run thousands of board feet of poplar since having trees harvested and milled here on our property in the early 2000s and one thing I've never had was any kind of "fuzzy edges" and surfaces. It's also harder than the white pine I've used from time to time. SYP is a different animal, of course.

[Andrew More]

Again, what grade? You say clear poplar, that's not a reasonable comparison to framing lumber. #2 common? #1 common? Should be down in the dollar and under range.

I don't know, the local sawyers don't offering grading on poplar or any other wood. Maybe if I bought it bulk, or asked, I might be able to get something like that? I disagree with your assertion that it should be a different price in another part of the country, from where you're living, which is why I mentioned the midwest.

The price and availability of KD hard or softwood is never going to be as low as framing lumber from the Borg or a lumberyard but it's not 15x the process either.

Both Menards and Home Depot claim the SYP is KD here. I have not seen it move any more than the usual season adjustments of a little here and there. I also forgot to mention I have a few pieces my father made a couple of decades ago, including a twin bed with 6' rails, than have not moved significantly.

KD Lumber.PNG

[Andrew More]

FWIW, pricing sheet from local sawyer about 45 minutes from my house. There's another one, in town, but the prices tend to be a bit higher, mostly reflecting their location in one of the nicest locations in the city.

IMG_20180906_091606.jpg

[Mark Bolton]

Without a doubt location and the vendor will have an effect. Obviously the source you posted only sells the higher grades of material which Im sure they choose to do for any number of reasons. I had posted this sheet from Yoder (I dont deal with them but its the only sheet I had handy) That shows #1 common poplar at 1.04 in single board quantities and I believe all their material is skipped to 15/16 so its clean-ish.

http://www.yoderlumber.com/images/pd...rpricelist.pdf

My point was just that a grade of material commensurate with framing lumber (#1 common poplar is far and away more stable and better than framing lumber) may only be $0.25/bf more. Even if its double the price its not the same as 8-14/bd ft which was what I was commenting on. I dont pay 8$ a bd ft for FAS Black Walnut (or any domestic hardwood at all for that matter).

Volume plays a part for sure (I dont buy huge quantities) but most domestic hardwoods other than the odd balls are often well below $2 and they are more than likely going to land to you at 7-8% so all of that would factor in.

No doubt we all build bench bases out of framing lumber at some point but when it comes to jointing and planing the "leap" to KD hard or soft woods is not as large a jump as many want to make it out to be.

[Andrew More]

Without a doubt location and the vendor will have an effect. Obviously the source you posted only sells the higher grades of material which Im sure they choose to do for any number of reasons.

Maybe? I haven't bought any poplar from them, but I have bought some eastern pine, which had a number of knots in it. They were willing to allow me to pick boards, and cut around obvious problem spots. I don't find their prices to be much different from other vendors. The one you linked to is about 4 hours from here, and close to Cleveland, which has access to Canadian lumber over the Great Lakes.

My point was just that a grade of material commensurate with framing lumber (#1 common poplar is far and away more stable and better than framing lumber) may only be $0.25/bf more. Even if its double the price its not the same as 8-14/bd ft which was what I was commenting on. I dont pay 8$ a bd ft for FAS Black Walnut (or any domestic hardwood at all for that matter).

Okay, I've seen local prices at the fancy sawyer of $15 a bf for walnut, though the sheet I linked too, and others have been far cheaper. I still don't see anything that's not 2-3x the amount charged for SYP. I would agree if the difference in price was only $0.25/bf then go with a hardwood species (though I'm not convince popular is better than SYP). I'd further add you have a very good point that most people don't understand the difference in price, because they're priced differently.

No doubt we all build bench bases out of framing lumber at some point but when it comes to jointing and planing the "leap" to KD hard or soft woods is not as large a jump as many want to make it out to be.

I think that's fair. I must admit I was surprised at how "cheaply" I could get quality hardwood, once I asked for it in the rough, at a sawyer. The prices at Rockler and the big box stores make it seem very expensive, when it literally grows on trees.

However, to be clearer, Jay Bates, and Christopher Swartz both prefer SYP for the entire bench, including the top. In Jay's case he stated that he felt it was easier to work with than his hickory bench because of how it bounced the energy of his blows back to him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HoOPhKMbms

Christopher Schwartz appears to like cheap woods for benches, and commented that Beech was often the wood of choice in Europe for that reason. He has specifically named SYP for workbenches, though I can't find a link atm.
https://blog.lostartpress.com/2014/0...son-workbench/
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/w...ench-builders/
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/t...workbenches/2/

I'd also point out that there are a number of species sold as SYP, and regional differences are going to result in different lumber, and comparing the lumber in California or the rest of the west coast is not going to be the same as the stuff I can get here.

I'd also point out that even professional wood workers like the Samurai Carpenter make things out of pine, despite mostly working in hardwoods. I don't know that it's necessarily a "jump" is it is selecting the right material for the job. If you've got a large project, for somebody who will not appreciate a nicer wood, then the cost difference can make it very much work the while to do it in a cheaper wood.

[Mark Bolton]

Okay, I've seen local prices at the fancy sawyer of $15 a bf for walnut, though the sheet I linked too, and others have been far cheaper. I still don't see anything that's not 2-3x the amount charged for SYP.

For sure, and again, SYP to Walnut is a massive jump. I pay half your sheet for FAS Walnut regularly. Once you get off the borg/rockelr/woodcraft thing it gets interesting but you've got to commit and not be a nuisance. Beyond that all bets are off. There are large margins included to deal with defecting, grading, being allowed to pick, and its up to the individual if they are willing to pay the addition margin to pick to buy exactly what they need or just buy a full pack for the same price and you may, or may not, get all you need for the project and have a boat load of drops left over.

The latter is the smarter decision in my mind but there are surely times when your needing primo material that the drops will pretty much be loss tht paying the premium to be able to pick and sort makes sense.

[Mark Bolton]

Framing lumber is about $0.70 - $1.25/bd ft, 8/4 S3S hardwood is $8-$14/bd ft. Let's keep the thread focused on the basic question of "will cherry-picked Doug Fir boards from HD gum up cutters?"

Just revisiting this thread, and unfortunately as with most who want to justify using borg framing lumber, "wild cherry picking" your numbers. $8-$14 a board foot?!!?!? Are you comparing bubinga to borg framing lumber? No idea what the deal is in CO but I posted http://www.yoderlumber.com/images/pd...rpricelist.pdf and surely to god there is a supply near you in the same range for commodity mateial thats local to your area. In that list 8/4 poplar (likely dead clear nutso grade of material compared to framing lumber) is $1.98 a stick at a time and $0.30 less when you hit a modest volume. I would bet #1 or #2 if they saw it would be way less than that and at least it will be at 7-8%

Im not advocating surfacing your own 2x4's out of poplar but again, the leap from $0.70 all the way to $8-$14 is one that speaks clearly to trying to justify your logic. Get some pricing on #1 or #2 common bread and butter KD material and I would guess you will never surpass 2x your high number of 1.25/bd ft for framing lumber. You may have to commit to a pack of 600' or so (pretty much nothing) but you'll be dealing with better material out of the gate and likely never look back.

[Andrew More]

For sure, and again, SYP to Walnut is a massive jump. I pay half your sheet for FAS Walnut regularly. Once you get off the borg/rockelr/woodcraft thing it gets interesting but you've got to commit and not be a nuisance.

I think it also depends on how much time you want to invest. That $15/bf for walnut is from the close, fancy sawyer. I can drive for 45-60 minutes one way and get much lower prices, but then I'm paying for gas, and eating up valuable time. Further all the local sawyers have mostly 9-5 business hours, with a little time on Saturday. Say whatever else you like about the home centers, they're open and in my case 5 minutes away.

[Mark Bolton]

I think it also depends on how much time you want to invest. That $15/bf for walnut is from the close, fancy sawyer. I can drive for 45-60 minutes one way and get much lower prices, but then I'm paying for gas, and eating up valuable time. Further all the local sawyers have mostly 9-5 business hours, with a little time on Saturday. Say whatever else you like about the home centers, they're open and in my case 5 minutes away.

No doubt, and completely agree. Your position is very very smart. Your time has value. Driving to BF Egypt to save $80 doesnt make a lot of sense as compared to shop time, fuel, vehicle expense/wear/and tear.. very very smart. Refreshing to hear.

I pay a boat load more than I want for some stuff that can be dropped at the shop door because my time is worth far more than any savings.

[scott vroom]

I think the bigger question would be who in their right mind would be trying to "joint" framing lumber in the first place? Its a fools errand. Your talking material that is not stable, not kiln dried, may or may not be heat treated? If your making _crap_ out of framing lumber, and heaven forbid your having to make so little of it that you are having to buy it at home depot as opposed to being setup with a distributor delivering to your shop, then all bets are off. gummy, staples in the edges of your material, crap, twist, wet, sap, it is what it is.. your buying your material at the home center? What do you expect?

Unless he edited it out, the OP doesn't mention whether it was run through a planer or jointer.

I've had occasional need in general construction to thin 2x DF lumber (e.g. furring), and have never had an issue running it through my planer. We typically build with KD #2 DF so wet sap not so much an issue as the green stuff you find at HD. Not in my right mind? Probably, but for reasons unrelated to woodworking.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a queen sized bed for guests that is made of hand picked SYP from HD. It has almost no knots that show. The legs are glued up to 3x3. It went through the planner fine and glued up fine. It is not the first and will not be the last bed I made of framing lumber. Debating making a bunk bed of softwood right now (but only 1 of 3 grandkids are big enough to use it so there is no rush). The moisture content is not as low as KD hardwood but by the time I store softwood in my uncooled shop in the summer in SC it probably isn't still 8% either. It's dry enough not to cause problems. I used framing lumber to support the slats on my cherry queen sized bed. I did not see the point of using hardwood for that purpose. Framing lumber milled to size works fine. I've noticed no big issue with needing to clean cutters but I suspect it could be bad if you get something with a lot of sap in it. I avoid that including repurposing the wood to something other than furniture if I find sap while milling (in significant quantities, small pockets can be sealed with shellac and cause no issue).

I paid 3.50 per bd ft for the last cherry I bought. I could have paid $10 another place but I drove a little and got a much better price. I think I paid 3 for maple before that. This was rough planned. It was stored in an unheated metal building so although it had been kiln dried it's moisture content had probably gone up at least a little. I suspect transportation is often a significant portion of the price and thus regional prices would vary. I get better deals going closer to or in North Carolina than I find in SC. I used to get good deals from a mill outside Pittsburgh PA when I lived there.