Layout optimzation and performance life?

[brian cammarata]

I have been combing various sites (auctions, CL, etc) and think I stumbled on a CV1800 5HP dust cyclone from a hobby shop. The existing setup seems a bit funky i.e. optimized for space at hand, not performance. The cyclone is a large distance from the actual source machines and it is full level above machinery (woodshop is in basement, unit is located upstairs in garage). Current setup is direct vented so maybe that helps, but there is a large volume of piping (curves and bends) as well as modest uphill traverse for dust extraction. The first machine by my estimation is 40 - 50 feet from unit and the last machine is probably an additional 70 – 80 ft (with drops, bends in-between).

Long story short, aside from inefficient setup any additional concerns looking at a used unit i.e. motor stress, etc?

[Paul F Franklin]

Sure sounds like they had lousy dust collection because of the layout, but little chance the collector was damaged in any way by it.

[Frank Pratt]

I have been combing various sites (auctions, CL, etc) and think I stumbled on a CV1800 5HP dust cyclone from a hobby shop. The existing setup seems a bit funky i.e. optimized for space at hand, not performance. The cyclone is a large distance from the actual source machines and it is full level above machinery (woodshop is in basement, unit is located upstairs in garage). Current setup is direct vented so maybe that helps, but there is a large volume of piping (curves and bends) as well as modest uphill traverse for dust extraction. The first machine by my estimation is 40 - 50 feet from unit and the last machine is probably an additional 70 – 80 ft (with drops, bends in-between).

Long story short, aside from inefficient setup any additional concerns looking at a used unit i.e. motor stress, etc?

It probably performed quite badly with all that duct & fittings. But ironically, the more resistance to the airflow, the easier it is on the motor. It's spent it's life just loafing.

[Jim Becker]

The elevation isn't much of an issue because the unit is moving air. But enormous amounts of duct work including long distances can certainly compromise performance. CV makes a nice cyclone system and with a good duct work design, it should work well for a shop that's within its specifications. I also doubt any issues with the motor/impeller for the reasons that Frank mentioned.

[John K Jordan]

I have been combing various sites (auctions, CL, etc) and think I stumbled on a CV1800 5HP dust cyclone from a hobby shop. The existing setup seems a bit funky i.e. optimized for space at hand, not performance. The cyclone is a large distance from the actual source machines and it is full level above machinery (woodshop is in basement, unit is located upstairs in garage). Current setup is direct vented so maybe that helps, but there is a large volume of piping (curves and bends) as well as modest uphill traverse for dust extraction. The first machine by my estimation is 40 - 50 feet from unit and the last machine is probably an additional 70 – 80 ft (with drops, bends in-between).

Long story short, aside from inefficient setup any additional concerns looking at a used unit i.e. motor stress, etc?

I have that cyclone and my longest distance is probably 55'. I use 6" PVC ducts, angled up from the cyclone due to space constraints, has a bend and a long straight section above the ceiling, then 6" drops to the tools. There are a couple of spits in the ducts to get to several tools. That machine has incredible power. I get very good collection at the two furthest machine, including the bandsaw. The separation at the cyclone is very good, putting even talcum-fine sanding dust in the bin. Mine will pick up good-sized chunks of wood, pull them up and approx 6' vertical rise, and carry them in the bin. My ducting is not necessarily the most efficient but I think the power is enough to overcome some significant inefficiencies.

Cyclone_inlet_IMG_2915.jpg tape-storage.jpg

I've read of other installations with the cyclone in an upper room and there were no reported problems.

Turn it on and see if it runs. The thing should spin up very rapidly unless the wiring is undersized enough to lower the voltage, in which case the motor could possibly have overheated if run that way for long. If suspicious and comfortable with checking you might a volt meter to monitor the voltage and use a clamp on amp meter to check the amperage to see if it is reasonable. Try watching the separation while someone throws handfuls of a mix of fine and coarse sawdust into the end. Wear hearing protection. You should see a long spiral of sawdust in the cone that gradually goes away as things fall into the bin. If there are no leaks in the bin almost nothing will go up the center and to the outlet.

JKJ

[Matthew Curtis]

Check for any cracks in the cyclone. Keep a close eye on where the collection barrel is attached and the intake portion.

[Jim Becker]

I've read of other installations with the cyclone in an upper room and there were no reported problems.

Vertical doesn't matter relative to air flow and air flow is what moves the dust and chips...it's all about bends and distance because those are what compromise air flow.

[brian cammarata]

Check for any cracks in the cyclone. Keep a close eye on where the collection barrel is attached and the intake portion.

thanks for this. Aside from the motor issue in the original question i was worried about that. I have a Oneida V-2000 2hp and i guess my more is better mentality is getting the best of me. The clear cone seems to potentially be more of problematic that the metal i have been utilizing.

I guess my next question is how much more noticeable performance difference am i going to see in going from Oneida 2hp V2000 to 5 HP CV1800? Cost wise i can get the upgrade for $400 (assuming I sell my V2000). I will have additional PITA drop relocation and redoing duct which is not my favorite activity

[Frank Pratt]

For $400, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's a substantial performance increase.

[John K Jordan]

...The clear cone seems to potentially be more of problematic that the metal i have been utilizing.

The cone and other plastic parts are REALLY tough. I bought some extra flat pieces from ClearVue to make brackets and such. Feels like Lexan to me but they say "Our cyclone bodies are built from heavy gauge 1/8" thick patented copolyester (PETG) plastic, which includes the best qualities of both acrylic (Plexiglas) and poly carbonate (Lexan)."

If the original installers followed the instructions it should be sealed all around with a clear silicone caulk, also tough.

One thing I really liked about it being clear rather than opaque was the ability to watch the operation during initial testing. With a metal cone you might guess but with the clear plastic you can see for yourself. Just don't do what I did - vacuum up a bunch of cat litter I used to take up a spill. The grit "sanded" the inside of the cone - I still can see the action inside but as through a slightly foggy window.

JKJ

[james manutes]

Clearvue once told me on a phone call , that plastic is used in police riot shields . Tough stuff .

[Andrew More]

For $400, I'd do it in a heartbeat. That's a substantial performance increase.

Agreed. Clear Vue will sell just the body for that amount. Replacing a motor is not a big deal, and it's difficult to damage the rest of the machine.

[John K Jordan]

Clearvue once told me on a phone call , that plastic is used in police riot shields . Tough stuff .

I tried shooting a piece of polycarbonate with a 9mm round at close range. The bullet deformed the plastic nicely but didn't go through. (This was a piece of scrap left over from building a bullet-proof guard station at a nuclear facility where I worked.)

JKJ

[Andy D Jones]

It probably performed quite badly with all that duct & fittings. But ironically, the more resistance to the airflow, the easier it is on the motor. It's spent it's life just loafing.

Just to clarify: "...the more resistance to airflow on the suction side, the easier it is on the motor."

Resistance on the suction side creates more vacuum (lower pressure), reducing the density of the air, which then reduces viscosity, and therefore effort on the impeller.

Resistance on the output side increases pressure, density, viscosity, and thus effort on the impeller.

Andy - Arlington TX