Chipbreaker for hard woods

[Josko Catipovic]

Couple things to touch on:
Sharpness is relative, but I establish the bevel on a Tormek, transfer to a LV Mk2, registering by making sure I'm honing both top and bottom of the bevel, then bump up a degree and work to 8000. Seems to work. Back is flat.
Mouth on the #4 is quite wide; I should probably move the frog forward a bit, but never bothered. To digress, I have an early Stanley #3 where I did have to file out the mouth to fit a PMV11 blade. Somehow, I ended up with a gap I can barely see through, yet it takes off full-with fine shavings. I counted my blessings, stopped filing, and use it as a final smoother. (Still don't understand how a plane can work with almost no daylight between blade and mouth front.) That leaves the #4 for heavier work.
I got this plane new in t mid 80's from Garret wade. Does that establish whether it has a Tungsten blade? I stil have the original blade, and don't see that much of a difference performance-wise. My Record #7 has the original blade, and works just fine.

This is the first time I've worked a wood different enough to really focus my attention on the chipbreaker. So far, I did the obvious with it and took it for granted.

[Mark Hennebury]

You can fine tune your plane to work exceptionally well, when you understanding what you are doing. When the parts are properly filed and ground, it is possible to have a close set chipbreaker, set within a couple of thou without choking, it is also possible to have an incredible small throat opening. As you can see in the photos the throat opening is so close that the shaving is tight but will still pass through, as you see i can actually lift the plane up by the shaving, yet it still passes through without restriction. Shavings can be taken in a wide range of thickness down to spiderweb, All of the measurements are relative to the shaving thickness. There is a sweetspot for shaving thickness /woodspecies. Study, test, analyse adjust, rinse and repeat. This plane can be made to preform to the highest level, with a little understanding and a little work.
you may have noticed that my plane has some modification done to it, that is just my preference for adjusting with a hammer.
A handplane and a Supersurfacer are functionally the same.
I have used both for many years, the adjustment and settings are the same, the job that they do is the same.
shavings18.jpgshavings1_small.jpg
SAM_1293.JPGSAM_1293-001.JPGSAM_1305-001.JPGSAM_1294.JPGSAM_1308.JPGSAM_1319.JPG

[Warren Mickley]

Ipe is hard on tools. I remember a friend who runs a sawmill telling me he bought a bunch of extra band mill blades in anticipation when he had to cut up ipe for flooring. I have a little sample that someone else gave me twenty years ago, I can't find it today, but I remember it was not something we would use for cabinetmaking. Hardness is 3684, which makes a lot of tropical timbers look pretty tame.

In thinking again about this I don't think the cap iron was the reason you were getting dust, More likely the edge was kind of beat up.

[Derek Cohen]

Well Josko, it is difficult to find faults here. I am assuming that the blade is sharp, as you have used a decent strategy, the mouth of the plane is not in question, the steel of the blade is actually irrelevant when freshly sharpened, but you are using good steel. All I can suggest is that you play with the distance for the chipbreaker. Dust suggests it is too close. Have you tried the other plane for comparison?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Josko Catipovic]

I've got it working now. #3 peels off a shaving like it always did, but #4 choked up until I backed off the chipbreaker. Difference to a small adjustment was quite amazing. Reason for the post is that I've never had a chipbreaker come up to the forefront like this before, and I started wondering what I've been missing all along. My guess is it kind of evolved to a decent position on woods I'm used to, and I think I've now got it working decently on ipe as well. But it sure got me thinking about how much room for improvement there is here.

[David Silverson]

I enjoy your knowledgeable posts but they would be much more enjoyable without the poorly hidden anger issues you seem to have.

[Jim Matthews]

That's the spirit!

Pictures of your plane (with measurements) might help.
Personally, I love the classic Record planes and delight in using O1 steel.

[Derek Cohen]

I've got it working now. #3 peels off a shaving like it always did, but #4 choked up until I backed off the chipbreaker. Difference to a small adjustment was quite amazing. Reason for the post is that I've never had a chipbreaker come up to the forefront like this before, and I started wondering what I've been missing all along. My guess is it kind of evolved to a decent position on woods I'm used to, and I think I've now got it working decently on ipe as well. But it sure got me thinking about how much room for improvement there is here.

Good work Josko!

I was planing some quarter sawn Tasmanian Oak today (for drawer sides), and getting dust along with the shavings. I recalled my comments to you, and backed off the chipbreaker a smidgeon. The dust went away.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Gibney]

Such an interesting discussion, I don't have the depth of experience using handtools as extensively as most of you here do.

How do you even know what the degree of angle is on a Stanley chipbreaker? It's a rounded shape where it comes into contact with the iron. How do you measure this?

[Jim Koepke]

Such an interesting discussion, I don't have the depth of experience using handtools as extensively as most of you here do.

How do you even know what the degree of angle is on a Stanley chipbreaker? It's a rounded shape where it comes into contact with the iron. How do you measure this?

It depends on what means you have to measure the angle. With an angle gauge:

Angle Gauge.png

(This one is listed as being at Lowes for less than $10.)

It is possible to get a relative measurement of the angle between the blade and the deflection point of the chip breaker.

You could also cut a piece of scrap to 45º to use as an 'eyeball' gauge.

It may be a help to remember the perfect angle for one person's local lumber may not be ideal for someone else's local lumber. 50º may be a general sweet spot. There are also likely low angles that offer no interaction and higher angles causing too much push back on the shaving trying to exit.

If what you have is working well, it likely isn't broken, it may be better to not try fixing it.

jtk

[Mark Gibney]

Thanks Jim, I try that out. Maybe seeing is believing.

[Warren Mickley]

How do you even know what the degree of angle is on a Stanley chipbreaker? It's a rounded shape where it comes into contact with the iron. How do you measure this?

We usually can get a good gauge on this when we polish the cap iron on an oil stone. You can see the angle better by looking at the most extreme angle the cap iron makes with the stone.

In 2007 I wrote an email to Bill Tindall explaining the shaping and polishing of the cap iron. To come up with an angle, 80 degrees, I looked at the juncture of the two irons with a 10X loupe.

[Derek Cohen]

Such an interesting discussion, I don't have the depth of experience using handtools as extensively as most of you here do.

How do you even know what the degree of angle is on a Stanley chipbreaker? It's a rounded shape where it comes into contact with the iron. How do you measure this?

Mark ...

Begin by ensuring that the chipbreaker mates perfectly with the back of the blade.

Next, this is what I do with a standard LN or LV/Veritas chipbreaker, which will have a leading edge if 25 degrees. This receives a roughly 2mm wide secondary bevel using a honing guide at 50 degrees. At this stage, diamond stones are preferred. Say, 600 and 1200 grit.

Then round the bevel freehand on the 600. Keep a sliding bevel (or a sawn block of wood), set to 50 degrees, alongside. I borrow here from the blade sharpening technique of Paul Sellers (pulling the chipbreaker back, starting at a lower angle and ending at 50 degrees).

Once done, move to higher grits, still using the rounded action and guided by the sliding bevel - I use Spyderco ceramic stones as they are hard like an oilstone. Finish on green compound for the ultimate shine/smoothness.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark Gibney]

Thanks guys, that's well explained.

[Josko Catipovic]

Another Ipe thing is it's murder on plane edges. Does it make sense to sharpen to a steeper angle (say 30 instead of 25 primary) when working very hard woods?