Is there money in woodworking?

[Edwin Santos]

Its a changing dynamic and unfortunately other than in a very high end niche market the broad spectrum of the retail consumer market is about cheap, online, and fast. None of those three things jive with profitable small shop production.

I might add "disposable" to your description of today's broad market. I have noticed a generational change where Gen X onwards are less inclined to invest in heirloom items. All technology and electronic items are basically disposable with a short life span. This seems to have influenced all areas of consumer thinking including furniture. So if the customers are thinking of the item as temporary, 3-5 years, then there is a limit to what they will spend.
Again, this is the broad market. There will always be high end exceptions, especially in a strong economy, but I think they are fewer and farther between, and when a recession hits, even that market can dry up for a while.

[Randy Heinemann]

In short I believe no. If you can combine your skills making furniture with teaching, gaining popularity on YouTube or possibly find some niche where you sell large volumes of a product and can mass produce it then maybe. Then it is not really woodworking or furniture building you’re doing, at least not the kind where you build one of a kind furniture. There is only a small segment of potential customers who are willing to pay for custom furniture. The rest tend to believe you can make custom pieces for less than regular furniture sells in the stores. I love woodworking but, for me, attempting to make a living at it wouldn’t allow me to do the things I like about it most of the time.

[Jeff Monson]

Yes.



The secret to making woodworking make money? Be nice to people, answer your phone, work hard, and track every dollar. Do that and you will truly stand out in the crowd and you will have more work than you can do.

This!!! Spot on advice that applies to ANY business. I will add "when you make a mistake you take care of it" to the list. Otherwise just good common sense practice that very few businesses follow. This has always been my motto and my business is successful as a result.

[Mark Bolton]

This!!! Spot on advice that applies to ANY business. I will add "when you make a mistake you take care of it" to the list. Otherwise just good common sense practice that very few businesses follow. This has always been my motto and my business is successful as a result.

Its a phenomenal business practice no doubt. But its no guarantee or form of fertilizer for work through the door that pays. Its a "kiss it up to god" philosophy that typically speaks to the success simply being someone that busts their chops all around.

It all ties back to the changing economy. Wide strata of contributors here. The old guard that believes if you just keep your head down and work youll be ok... great philosophy but that died in the 60's. Happy customer tells one person a pissed off tells 10.... That is likely amplified a million fold for on-line/social media,.. but I can honestly tell you that doing odd/high custom work (when I did it) there are many times that your customers will not tell anyone about you because they want to hog you for themselves (thinking your getting rich from their jobs)..

There is a million levels of strata. I think in such a fast moving economy its dangerous for the old guard to advise those in this new age to operate in a way they think is profitable. In a disposable economy where a customer buys crap from a box store and then beats up a small supplier on price but expects caviar service doesnt make sense. It drives "the maker" into the ground.

Everyone reading this post has bought some dog poop light fixture, tool, product, vegetable, article of clothing, from a dirt cheap supplier that they shopped for the lowest price to find. When it landed.. and was found after a time to be crap, you just eat it, or if your a scumbag you return it even though you knew you were buying crap when you hit "add to cart". But you will beat a small local shop to that same standard of reasonable return.

Its simply unsustainable.

I buy some crap that I know full well is crap when I hit "ship it".. it lands.. its as advertised, but clearly crap.. it goes in the trash and I should've known better. I do that very very rarely now as I value my time and 99.9% of my purchases are for business.

A recent thread about ordering some "shop standards" (measuring scales) is a perfect example. You buy crap on price, it lands, and you return it thinking there is no skin off you.. you got your money back. The items land in the trash counted as loss, they are manufactured, plated, toxins are flushed into the planet, all to fill the market of the cheap shopper, and then only to be returned for credit and likely in the landfill.

There will be a reckoning for this recklessness. Who knows when it will hit.

[mike stenson]

Mark, you're spot on. The accumulation of 'stuff' started in the 60s, and we can trace the transience of those items to that time as well. Because of that, the consumer is ultimately continuing this insane negative feedback loop. I really do try to buy quality, and locally, but that is becoming harder and harder as we lose independent B&Ms and any more buying used and spending the time to repair/restore is becoming more appealing. Since my generation was blamed a few posts prior, I will point this out. We were the first generation to expect to do worse than our parents. We simply couldn't afford to shop outside of those bargain basement places for a long time, and the economy has never returned to the level that the boomers enjoyed as young adults.

[Mark Bolton]

Mark, you're spot on. The accumulation of 'stuff' started in the 60s, and we can trace the transience of those items to that time as well. Because of that, the consumer is ultimately continuing this insane negative feedback loop. I really do try to buy quality, and locally, but that is becoming harder and harder as we lose independent B&Ms and any more buying used and spending the time to repair/restore is becoming more appealing. Since my generation was blamed a few posts prior, I will point this out. We were the first generation to expect to do worse than our parents. We simply couldn't afford to shop outside of those bargain basement places for a long time, and the economy has never returned to the level that the boomers enjoyed as young adults.

Were headed off topic on this but I dont know really whether its not being able to afford or that the level of perceived necessary gee-gaws dangled infront of the masses continues to bear fruit or what. I have lived for perhaps 20+ years with rabbit ears on the TV. I am not going to pay $150-250 a month to watch TV programming that is not channels, but perpetual advertising. SO's local cable company recently expanded the mere 15 or so chanels you got by sticking a coax in the back of your TV to some 50-80 or so channels. DIY, History, HGTV, Food, Own, right on down the list.

Its utterly insane coming from not having seen that to now seeing it. You all are-being-programmed-to-consume. Nearly every show is nothing more than continuous advertisement for crap in-filled with a formal advertisement. Its completely insane. Non stop advertising. Coming from not having seen this stuff for 20 years its just plain wild to see how dooped the 200 channelers are being played. Its sick. And 90% of it is total junk. Low quality, budget, flipper, crap. And the default for someone who plans to stay in their home for a while is to cave to what they see. Its disgusting.

Marketing people are geniuses, devils, and witches who should be burned at the stake, all in one tasty little shinny candy.

Its really really wild.

[Alex Zeller]

Amen. In my area (Cape Cod, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard) there's 'old money' willing to do things 'right, the old way' and 'new money' trying to outdo each other with mcmansions and furnishings. Between the two types, there's room for a community of extraordinary craftsmen. A friend is completing a six-figure white oak spiral staircase this winter and has been working on similar stuff for well over a decade. It's word-of-mouth and seemingly very hard to break into. The community manages to keeps itself stable. The rest of us occasionally get lucky to get one of these craftsmen, typically at wholly reasonable rates, to do a spectacular piece of work for us.

My neighbor is a part of that community. It's nothing for someone in California to request him to do work. For the most part he stays away from kitchen cabinets and focuses on other parts of a house. Custom stairs/ railings, book cases, and unique style doors. His shop is full of equipment you would die to have. But he almost always buys used and trades up often until he gets exactly what he wants. He also will take work doing other jobs (non-woodworking). Over all he does well and has lots of free time off.

But he started young. Where he grew up there was a man who was extremely talented. As he was graduating high school he went to him and ask to work. When the answer was no he said he would work for free just so he could learn. It took over a year before he got his first paycheck. For the first month all he did was push a broom. But when he proved he wanted to learn he got training most of us would love to have. For most of us that wouldn't be an option.

[johnny means]

On the topic of markets, there are no small markets any more. There is only inadequate research and marketing. You could build little wooden snail velodromes and there are more than enough buyers to build a successful business. The challenge is reaching the market for snail racing facilities.

[Jim Becker]

On the topic of markets, there are no small markets any more. There is only inadequate research and marketing. You could build little wooden snail velodromes and there are more than enough buyers to build a successful business. The challenge is reaching the market for snail racing facilities.

Oh, the mental image that brings....

[Mark Gibney]

"The other thing to consider is how do you get to the market."

Exactly this. Maybe a year back I met a young man called Josh Jackson who started and runs a very successful woodworking business here in Los Angeles.
He told me point blank "Mark, I'm not a woodworker, I'm an entrepreneur. I know how to use social media to market myself."
He said he knows many people who are better woodworkers than him, who are struggling. They love wood. They have a beautiful piece of wood, they hold onto it. He said when he finishes a project he puts the excess wood out on the street and puts a "for free" ad on craigslist.

His shop is right on a shopping street in an up-and-coming area, and people can look in through the window, it's only 800 sq feet, he and his partner have just enough machinery.
He doesn't take on cabinetry work.

It's one thing to know all this, another to use it. I dislike social media. I also have an abundance of beautiful pieces of wood.

[Mark Bolton]

"The other thing to consider is how do you get to the market."

Exactly this. Maybe a year back I met a young man called Josh Jackson who started and runs a very successful woodworking business here in Los Angeles.
He told me point blank "Mark, I'm not a woodworker, I'm an entrepreneur. I know how to use social media to market myself."
He said he knows many people who are better woodworkers than him, who are struggling. They love wood. They have a beautiful piece of wood, they hold onto it. He said when he finishes a project he puts the excess wood out on the street and puts a "for free" ad on craigslist.

His shop is right on a shopping street in an up-and-coming area, and people can look in through the window, it's only 800 sq feet, he and his partner have just enough machinery.
He doesn't take on cabinetry work.

It's one thing to know all this, another to use it. I dislike social media. I also have an abundance of beautiful pieces of wood.

This is the current concept of "fake it till you make it". Your stripping your customers of their hard earned cash supplying work your figuring out how to make while charging top dollar. Makes total.sense in the conversation of people only caring about 3-5 years on a purchase.

Very smart. Sadly many of us cant live with ourselves with such tactics.

[Brian Holcombe]

He’s being modest, he does nice work.

[Patrick Walsh]

I also get kinda mad at people that are good at marketing themself. I’m not the jealous type but I am jealous in this one arena. I have zero motivation to sell or market myself. It’s why I where I am. Where I am isn’t great either but it also is not the worst life.

I should be self employed but it’s totally a ton of work. I just wanna out my head down and make stuff. Sadly there’s always more to it than that.

[Mark Gibney]

For sure he's being modest, yes he does nice work.
I suppose the bigger point he was making in that regard is that he is business savvy. He's also a really good guy.

[Patrick Walsh]

Nothing wrong with that. So what your saying is he is a the rainbow unicorn of the woodworking world personable and not a head case.

For sure he's being modest, yes he does nice work.
I suppose the bigger point he was making in that regard is that he is business savvy. He's also a really good guy.