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Thread: 1982 Martin T-23

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Martin ( and most other ) shapers had ground tables so the rings were easier to make flush with the table. Flat is more critical when doing freehand work and not important when running a feeder and I would expect you will have the whole thing ground if needed. Are the quill bearings oil bath and is the pump mechanical or electric? I think Martin changed their lube system from the T21 to the T23. Joe or Darcy will know. The real beauty of those old shapers are inside the cabinet. The system to lubricate, the precision large bearings, and the large frame motor and guts to support all of it are impressive. Unlike new shapers, Martin hung the internals off a heavy base rather than relying on the cast iron top. New machines cheat on the base and save money by using the top as an anchor. Then they get a dip in the middle. Dave


    Hmm I always thought the long grooves where what a planed table looked like and ground table had swirls like a scm table. So are you saying I have [QUOTE=David backwards.

    I figure figured ground was Blanchard and when I googled Blanchard it looked to be a huge soiling disk and left me thinking it must be the machine used on Scmi hence the swirls.

    Then at least what I thought to be large surface planing machine’s travel side to side or back and forth “whatever you choose to call it” and hence make those long straight Martin ribs.

    These tables don’t have those ribs. They honestly have nothing and if anything some weird as swirl that’s not a swirl.

    Machine has an electronic oil bath for quill bearings.

    I would agree. I’m enamered by the inside of this machine or under the hood. I’d feel the same if the tables where at least flat although I agree with your summation that it probably does not matter.

    Nobody hear me wrong I loooooove this machine. Ill do whatever need be to get it q00% operating perfect beyond my expectations and for way less than anew anything.

  2. #62
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    Electronic oil bath bearings? Can you elaborate? My T21 had oil bath with I believe an impeller pump- great system.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Patrick,
    Martin shapers of this era and on always have non ribbed tables. My Hofmann shaper has ribbed tables, it works but I prefer smooth on shapers for curved work.

    I would go metal on the cover. Mine is missing the back cover and sometime I will duplicate the existing side cover. It is cast alu but I plan to make it out of 3/8” alu plate and have the slats bent at the sheet metal shop. On the original the slats were just nailed to the frame and falling apart. I put it back together by taping small screws in through the slats from the back side. There might be pictures of this on the Canadian site.

    JB weld worked fine to repair my hood. I am seriously thinking about upgrading to a newer fence on my T23. The original was good for its time but leaky and it’s hard to beat a pinned fence on a shaper. Fun to see the shop this came from. I doubt the PO would sell that original tenon hood?
    Yours looks in a lot better condition than what I started with.

  4. #64
    I can’t as I am ignorant.

    I only know of there bring two from spending. Out less hours over the last few years reading everything I can find online about these machines. Most of it by way of yourself, joe and Dave.

    I can not get pictures again till next week but my setup looks like joes on the backside of the door. But just behind the inner hinge is a box with wires going to and from the oil holder pump on the backside of the door. I didn’t look close enough to fully even begun to understand what is going on as I have had like zero time. I just assumed that box with wires must mean I have the electronic pump.

    I’m not sure what one would be best but my gut tells me electronic anything is always bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter gagliardi View Post
    Electronic oil bath bearings? Can you elaborate? My T21 had oil bath with I believe an impeller pump- great system.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Patrick,
    Martin shapers of this era and on always have non ribbed tables. My Hofmann shaper has ribbed tables, it works but I prefer smooth on shapers for curved work.

    I would go metal on the cover. Mine is missing the back cover and sometime I will duplicate the existing side cover. It is cast alu but I plan to make it out of 3/8” alu plate and have the slats bent at the sheet metal shop. On the original the slats were just nailed to the frame and falling apart. I put it back together by taping small screws in through the slats from the back side. There might be pictures of this on the Canadian site.

    JB weld worked fine to repair my hood. I am seriously thinking about upgrading to a newer fence on my T23. The original was good for its time but leaky and it’s hard to beat a pinned fence on a shaper. Fun to see the shop this came from. I doubt the PO would sell that original tenon hood?
    Yours looks in a lot better condition than what I started with.
    Hmm well good to know on the curved work, to date I’m a virgin. It’s time to put that behind me at this point however. Well at least I am on a shaper. Time to put my big boy pants on and fully realize the potential of my equipment.

    As for ribs I’m confused as my brand new t54 has ribs. Not as pronounced as older machines but clearly ribs.

    I’ll probably use JB weld although my crack runs the full length of one side so I’m scared unless done to be structurally sound and not just cosmetic it’s gonna implode one day.

    As for the louvers I’m gonna try and reproduce at least in appearance what is original to this particular 80’s era machine. I may give in and use aluminum. If so I’d be happy to let you know the cost and pass them onto you for that cost.

    As for pined hoods I think you are talking like my old Felder where the underside of the adjustments had a indexing pin. If so I have been thinking the same thing except replacement scares me off. I wouldn’t know where to source something better “I might now” second I love the old time look of the original one. With the machines I have had to use at work I’m still very used to the annoyance of archaic machinery regarding these details.

    Can you think of a way to add a indexing pin to this fence?

    And no the seller won’t sell anything else Martin

    Very nice guy though and honestly if I had found and purchased was he has I wouldn’t sell a bit of it. I’m pretty sure he would loan it to me to reproduce. I’ll take him up on his offer when I can breath financially. I suspect you would be interested in one if semi affordable..
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-18-2020 at 11:25 PM.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    Sorry, by ribs I mean the planed surface. Martin does in now on a CNC machine for the jointer and planer. I think Hofmann still uses a planer for theirs.
    Hofmann and Panhans make nice aftermarket pined fences with mechanical digital readouts. Martin will sell their manual pined fence but you will loose the swivel feature of the fence. If you can find one a T25 era fence will fit the T23.

  7. #67
    Who sells panhans in the United States.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    Sorry, by ribs I mean the planed surface. Martin does in now on a CNC machine for the jointer and planer. I think Hofmann still uses a planer for theirs.
    Hofmann and Panhans make nice aftermarket pined fences with mechanical digital readouts. Martin will sell their manual pined fence but you will loose the swivel feature of the fence. If you can find one a T25 era fence will fit the T23.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Central WI
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    5,666
    A very good grind and fine grain cast iron and you won't see the swirls. Back when planed tables were common, companies planed some tables, and ground others. Generally the lines followed the path of the wood so they wouldn't work well on the Martin shaper where the fence could be moved so the board moved across the ridges. Gomad was big on planing tables so maybe their shapers had them. I don't know if their hood swiveled or if their tenoning table could be set flush to the table rather than above it. SCM planed tables until the early 90's and then went to grinding on most everything. The ridges reduce friction and wood glides better over it. I like them because when buying used, I can see if there is wear on the tables. A table saw with lines near the blade has seen light use. My old Porter jointer has faint lines running in both directions. A little canners wax and it is like playing air hockey with wood. Dave

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    The table looks ground, but I can't tell if it's from a surface grinder or a blanchard grinder. If it looks like the swirls on your SCM bandsaw than it's Blanchard (rotary) ground, and if they're straight lines then it is surface ground.

    If it has light swirls than perhaps someone cleaned up the table at some point.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Ouray Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Who sells panhans in the United States.?
    i don’t know of any dealers but they have a online catalog and you can order direct. Most German companies don’t take credit cards overseas and that makes it more difficult.

  11. #71
    I like the lines or ribs.

    The Gomad has very nice ones.

    I’ll relay to Brian with this also, I think maybe the tables we’re screwed with at some point by someone. I could imagine that due to the pecks all over them and the that they are not 100% flat some genius that thought they could do a dam thing about it might have tried.

    Butt that’s only speculation.

    But again I like ribs. I get Blanchard are circular like my Scmi. Th size Scm rather Centuro tables are so wimpy. But I still love that dam saw.




    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    A very good grind and fine grain cast iron and you won't see the swirls. Back when planed tables were common, companies planed some tables, and ground others. Generally the lines followed the path of the wood so they wouldn't work well on the Martin shaper where the fence could be moved so the board moved across the ridges. Gomad was big on planing tables so maybe their shapers had them. I don't know if their hood swiveled or if their tenoning table could be set flush to the table rather than above it. SCM planed tables until the early 90's and then went to grinding on most everything. The ridges reduce friction and wood glides better over it. I like them because when buying used, I can see if there is wear on the tables. A table saw with lines near the blade has seen light use. My old Porter jointer has faint lines running in both directions. A little canners wax and it is like playing air hockey with wood. Dave

  12. #72
    Thank you joe,

    I think my boss may have contacted you about some short aigner table brackets.

    I’ll be contacting you next month for those fence plates. I’m gonna see if Brian and I can figure out a way to make the original Martin fence pinned.

    I do agree with you. I finally made some cuts with the gomad today at work. It’s no big deal for my work not having a pinned fence but it’s so much nicer when they are. I had no point of reference to this point as all the fences I have used to date were pinned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    i don’t know of any dealers but they have a online catalog and you can order direct. Most German companies don’t take credit cards overseas and that makes it more difficult.

  13. #73
    I mentioned another 3phase surprise.

    9494514C-3AB1-4207-892C-B5ADD0EA2C61.jpg

    95394FF1-AEFF-45BB-BF11-08A4BB294982.jpg

    F021B1EB-39A4-4BE2-99F9-CF69F780A886.jpg

    There’s a few more accessories not in the pictures.

    This all is getting totally carried away now. I’m fully addicted without a doubt. But you know I’m totally ok with it.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    65,685
    Tiny little thing...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  15. #75
    You'll be turning a few pens now..?? The cigar variety, I'm sure.

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