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Thread: 1982 Martin T-23

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    I can’t as I am ignorant.

    I only know of there bring two from spending. Out less hours over the last few years reading everything I can find online about these machines. Most of it by way of yourself, joe and Dave.

    I can not get pictures again till next week but my setup looks like joes on the backside of the door. But just behind the inner hinge is a box with wires going to and from the oil holder pump on the backside of the door. I didn’t look close enough to fully even begun to understand what is going on as I have had like zero time. I just assumed that box with wires must mean I have the electronic pump.

    I’m not sure what one would be best but my gut tells me electronic anything is always bad.
    Pics please!!! Mine has the same oil bath as Peter's which is actually not what I thought it would be at all. There's no impeller at all. As far as I can understand its centrifugal force of the cup spinning at the bottom of the quill that "slings" the oil out and up to the top of the upper bearing. I know they can fail.... but having looked it over my thought is the failures are likely either from running dry, or too much gunk built up over time. Hence I would never convert to a sealed bearing.

    Anyway if it had been an oil bath I would have recommend a full quill tear down to remove all the gunk that accumulates over decades. I don't know anything about how your machine works though so????

    JeffD

  2. #77
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    Feb 2015
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    Oh man I have no idea either.

    And the machine is at my uncles shop and I’m heading to New Jersey for the weekend to help finish fabrications a part for the t75.

    All I know is there is thing mounted to the inside of the right door and a sight glass. It’s at least half full. It has a series of I think black hoses coming out of it. Just around the corner from it in the base proper there is what looks like some kind of small electronic component. Honestly I have yet tot stop and even try to make sense of it as I have been going going going like a nut.

    I’ll get pictures next week and try to wrap my head around what I have.

    m
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Duncan View Post
    Pics please!!! Mine has the same oil bath as Peter's which is actually not what I thought it would be at all. There's no impeller at all. As far as I can understand its centrifugal force of the cup spinning at the bottom of the quill that "slings" the oil out and up to the top of the upper bearing. I know they can fail.... but having looked it over my thought is the failures are likely either from running dry, or too much gunk built up over time. Hence I would never convert to a sealed bearing.

    Anyway if it had been an oil bath I would have recommend a full quill tear down to remove all the gunk that accumulates over decades. I don't know anything about how your machine works though so????

    JeffD

  3. #78
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    Feb 2015
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    Yeah I was thinking chop sticks or those sticks women wear in their hair.

    You know I just gotta find a niche market. Isn’t that what the “making money woodworking” thread saiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm McLeod View Post
    You'll be turning a few pens now..?? The cigar variety, I'm sure.

  4. #79
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    Feb 2015
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    I like a big car.

    Gonna have to build a new garage for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Tiny little thing...

  5. #80
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    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    I think you need to find your next property as just land and build one of those shops-that-just-happen-to-have-integrated-living-quarters arrangements.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #81
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    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ouray Colorado
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    907
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Oh man I have no idea eitherAll I know is there is thing mounted to the inside of the right door and a sight glass. Itís at least half full. It has a series of I think black hoses coming out of it. Just around the corner from it in the base proper there is what looks like some kind of small electronic component. Honestly I have yet tot stop and even try to make sense of it as I have been going going going like a nutm
    My T23 has a 24v oil pump mounted on the door. I believe the T21 shapers had a mechanical pump mounted on the spindle assembly somewhere. Probably because the 23 tilts they had to take a different approach. The other electrical component at the bottom is a motor shutoff connected to the brake.
    For pinned fences itís probably possible to modify the existing but might be a lot of work.

  7. #82
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    Feb 2011
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    You certainly want to keep the oil pump functional. The large precision bearings need oil. The design is not appropriate for a greased bearing unless you want to spend more than the cost of the shaper to convert to a system that accepts a precision greased bearing. Dave

  8. #83
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    So joe,

    If mine is also door mounter and a t23 would that probably make it 24v or electrical also.

    In the case of such and failure could it be replaced with a new off the shelf non Martin unit if end be. Or are our makings paler weights without them?

    I’m gonna look long and hard into the pinned option on the original fence. I’ll probably recruit brined brain and maybe his hands. It’s clear he is way smarter than me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Calhoon View Post
    My T23 has a 24v oil pump mounted on the door. I believe the T21 shapers had a mechanical pump mounted on the spindle assembly somewhere. Probably because the 23 tilts they had to take a different approach. The other electrical component at the bottom is a motor shutoff connected to the brake.
    For pinned fences it’s probably possible to modify the existing but might be a lot of work.

  9. #84
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    Feb 2015
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    Yes Dave I really want to care for the machine and keep functioning.

    The spindle by hand moves so smooth I can hardly believe it. It’s unlike any others shaper I have ever had my hands on.

    Sadly I’ll will buy the greased conversion kit from Martin before it can’t be had. I’ll research to see in the event of the pump or a component of the pump failing that I can’t just fix that and retain the oil bath system. But if I find out I can’t repair the oil bath if it should fail the $5K is all be it a huge expenditure for me it’s nothing compared to a new machine of equal quality and pretty much on par a with a good old used one in the same condition.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    You certainly want to keep the oil pump functional. The large precision bearings need oil. The design is not appropriate for a greased bearing unless you want to spend more than the cost of the shaper to convert to a system that accepts a precision greased bearing. Dave

  10. #85
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    It will be interesting to see if another pump could be substituted if needed. That might be easier than swapping to grease. For grease to work, you probably still need open bearings and the existing system replaced with a housing for non contact shields. Then the bearings can throw excess grease yet find equilibrium so the correct amount stays inside. Not as easy as it seems. That is why new shapers run much smaller bearings. They can get the speed with standard bearings and shields but give up the high load capacity. My T130 is a big machine but the bearings are nothing like on my T21. The old US shapers like Whitney and Porter were even more stout. They had crappy fences though. Dave

  11. #86
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    It's just an oil pump with some electrical controls, it's not like martin designed, patented and built it themselves.

    Anything is repairable/replaceable.


    People made specific fences for each application back then, it's still probably the best way, but who wants to make and store all those fences.

  12. #87
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    I figured so much.

    Like anything if you are motivated and have the brains to figure it out then tooling and or access to it.

    Deep pockets sadly in many ways.

    Or at least a complete disregard financial responsibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    It's just an oil pump with some electrical controls, it's not like martin designed, patented and built it themselves.

    Anything is repairable/replaceable.


    People made specific fences for each application back then, it's still probably the best way, but who wants to make and store all those fences.

  13. #88
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    Jun 2016
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    Really not that expensive, it just takes knowing what to look for and some time.

  14. #89
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    Yeah for me that means expensive as I have no idea what I’m doing.

    I open a control panel even the most simple and I’m lost. Never mind the mess on most modern machines or even this old Martin. Between the Oiler the two or variable horsepower motor electronic speed setting I have no idea what I am doing.

    When i purchased the machine the previous owner gave me the electoral diagram with it. He briefly pointed to this or that and I was totally lost not knowing what hell he was talking about. I’m gonna need a education on electrical machinery wiring at some point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcy Warner View Post
    Really not that expensive, it just takes knowing what to look for and some time.

  15. #90
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    Feb 2015
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    Did some prep anticipating getting the machine in the shop next weekend.

    A couple months ago I purchased this lift table. The ramp I use has become way to much of a chore to setup, break down and then store. I hope to get one more of these lift tables for the outside of the house so I can do away with the large 4x8 platform.

    Pictures will give you all a glimmer of what I go through everytime I bring a machine into or out of my shop. This took me about four hours today. What pictures don’t show is the number of times the dam thing fell off the pallet jack or a wheel busted through a piece of the crap 1/4 material I was using. I know better but figured I’d give the 1/4 material a try being I had it. Normally I just shuffle two sheets of 3/4. That’s also a pita and tiring.

    Yeah and the extension cord what can I say I had no chain.

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