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Thread: 1982 Martin T-23

  1. #1
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    1982 Martin T-23

    And so it seems it begins again. The T-75 isn’t even technically done and I have a new project.

    I’m not gonna go all buggy on this one “just yet” if ever. I will 100% go all the way through the machine and make sure it is 100% fully functional to the 9’s. 10’ for me if it was a term. If anything I’m gonna do like car restorations are done. I’ll tear down and repair everything that needs attention and out the machine back together fully operational. At such point I’ll either leave it and use the dickens out of it or I’ll tear it “all the way down” and begin the madness. My guess is the former as this machine is coming home right away and I don’t see myself stripping the castings and or spraying paint in my shop never mind autobody paint.

    Long term I have to move as I “want not need” a full size real deal shop. For now due to work and life I’m stuck right where I am. I’m sure not gonna let that stop me from doing what I enjoy.

    I’m making the thread for two reasons and may duplicate and or move the thread over to OWW long term.

    Reason number one is I get help here, second reason is people seem to enjoy the topic, ok a third and fourth. I find other like threads very helpful when I dive off the deep end into these project. Ok what was the fourth or was it the third. I don’t know.

    How about some Sunday morning machine porn.
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-16-2020 at 8:19 AM.

  2. #2
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    So I’ll be sharing pictures of another mans shop. I’m not sure if that’s socially acceptable politically correct or my place. There will be no mention of who’s shop where or any of that so please don’t ask. If the owner/seller want to chime in so be it.

    Let’s just say I took a very long drive yesterday. I joke about moving to Canada and honestly at this point and if the guard does not change next election cycle I just may actually do it if they will have me. I’m not kidding I’m as passionate about this topic as I am my Martin machines. I pretty much was in Canada yesterday, if I had stopped to take a leek and I do so on one side of the street I would had got arrested in Canada vrs the unites states.

    Oh yeah the best part was I planned to rent a trailer at a local U-haul to drag the machine home. When I got to the counter I was informed I was driving with a expired license. That’s right I had driven seven hours with no license and I was seven hours from home and in need of a way to get a 2-3K lb machine home.

    I serious gem I even got to hear it run. Thing is as quiet at a new 24” Scmi. I totally was not expecting that. From what I was told this machine cuts with zero snipe and leave a perfect finished board. I would never look at a machine like this and expect a finish planer quality board. I would had though a machine like this would give you a saw mill skip planed product. You learn something new everyday.

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    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-16-2020 at 8:31 AM.

  3. #3
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    Moving on..

    And I didn’t even come close to getting pictures of everything. I was a bit overwhelmed honestly kinda or totally in machine nerd sensory overload shock. Plus I was thinking the whole time oh boy how did I drive all the way here on a expired license and how am I gonna get home. This machine is covered in this thick wax and I can’t check the tables for flat, the arbor for runout or put the dam thing under power. So I’m taking a $3750 risk and if anything major is wrong enough to warrant the machine a lead weight I’m gonna have to got to whatever length to fix it. The result could mean I end up $10k into this machine before I’m done.

    The machine has oil bath bearings. From what I understand Martin did sell and might still stock a greased bearing conversion. The issue with the oil bath system is the if the oil pump goes you can’t get one. I would suspect if I was motivated enough the pump could be replaced with something non factory and or rebuilt or remade. None of the above bringing any piece of mind nor excitement. But you know it is what it is. No offense to anyone but I’m done with Felder Minimax crap. My experience has been thus so far. Buy new or used high end hobby machines felder/Scm/minimax and maybe just maybe you get lucky and have no issues. That had not been my experience thus far. Your gonna pay way more money for new high end hobby equipment than vintage industrial machinery. Both ,ay or may not need work to get to work. At this point I see both as a roll of the dice as even when buying new manufactures take zero responsibility and pass the buck to the consumer. Hold them to the fire and your in for a long drawn out battle that results in nothing more than fine return the machine at your expense with at minimum a 20% restocking fee. And that will be after like six moths of arguing and threats.

    So for me this is waaaaaay better. At least entering into this I have very low expectations and don’t end up furious when I spend top dollar for a brand new machine and am told to kick rocks when it operates like machine pulled out of scrap heap.

    Ok back to porno baby!

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    The seller had a fair amount of northfeild gear all pretty much new and or unused or used for largely hobby much like my home shop.

    He had extended table cabinet saw that I didn’t get pictures of that was huge, just huge and purred like kitty cat when you forced it up. I can’t believe I didn’t get pictures. He has a single head shaper and a massive double head spindle shaper. That thing was hug like huge huge huge. Probably 8x5’ and for sale to boot. I’d love to buy it just to look at but that’s just stupid so I won’t. He also had a 16-20” joiner that will poke a corner of its head out in a picture. I’m not a huge fan of northfeild to date but was pretty impressed. The machines are far and away nicer than anything other than Martin, Kolle, Wadkin, Burrell and or the like. But still the castings or tables although machined beautifully not as thick and beefy as I like my Martins.

    None the less very very nice machines that put most anything else to shame. I’m still a relentless Martin fan even after a real life encounter.

  4. #4
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    Then there were these two sweet sweet gems. You got it two pre 80ís Martin T-23 tenon table shapers. One does not have the table installed but it was there. He actually had a spare outrigger support rail. He would not part with either machine and was selling me a third non tenon table t-23 of a q982 vintage

    Whatever someday Iíll get my pre 80ís t-23 tenon table. I want pre 80ís as the trunnion is a wee different. Sad part Is one of these two tennon table machines was built in 1977. I was born in 1977, itís gonna kill me thinking thinking them for a long long time.

    He even had a original tenon hood.

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  5. #5
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    Beyond all that this gentleman had two of everything any old iron freek could want. If not two three. It was the result of what I’m told has been 20 years collecting.

    Oliver lathes, Lablonde Metal lathe, wysong mortiser, Martin T-17 a like 20’ Wysong edge sander I think. Various northfeild, delta bits and pieces and all the ones your search for not the ones in abundance, a couple Kindt spindle sander, a Kindt Master 24” you get the drift all the good stuff.

    All loaded up and ready for the hail marry ride home sans license.

    I moved my giant snap on box home from my previous job a couple months ago. Somehow it cut loose mid trip and went flying criss my brand new nearly $70k van resulting in a pretty good dent mostly in the interior of the sliding door. Bing as such I was kinda reluctant to strap anything down in the van again that could cut loose. Pretty stupid as I purchased the vehicle with the intention of machinery acquisitions. But after the snap on box I decided I felt better dragging a trailer. Well here we are.

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  6. #6
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    I'm sure you'll have that thang "singing the song of its people" in a very nice way once you do your restoration and fine tuning! Don't worry about the paint...it's something you can deal with later when you have the right conditions for taking care of it. In the mean time...that's a serious piece of machinery to enjoy!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
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    Now I gotta figure out how Iím getting the dam thing out. I either roll the dice and push it out onto my new 3K lb hydrollic lift table. Or I drive to my uncles shop and have him lift it out with the fork truck then go rent a trailer and drag it home as planned. I still have no valid license being Sunday so Iím inclined to try and wrestle it out as Iím not keen on that amount of wight sitting in my brand new van any longer than need be. On the other hand if I bring it to my uncles shop I can tear into it over the next couple weeks and get the bulk of the functional restoration work done. I also have to take the table top off to get the machine through my shop door and using a fork truck for that will be much more easy than my current plan.

    Hmm, I can be very very patient but I also am a instant gratification kinda guy also. I want the thing in my dam shop but the better answer is take the long road.

    The t75 proves such.

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    The best part is the wrench has my dogs name engraved in it. Up my dogs name is Tank. I have no idea of Tank top referees to the type of wrench of its use or something else of significance. Regardless it seemed meant to be when the seller cam running out of his shop telling me to not forget the wrenches.

    Ok so now the real questions can begin. First on the list is the repair of a cracked aluminum casting to dust chute of the fence.then a couple covers/vents on the side of the machine made of plastic. Can you believe it Martin used plastic. It must had been the 80ís, cocaine plastic and seem to be the stamp the 80ís left on history.

    To boot I destroyed a re aggravated a rotator cuff injury at work last week wrestling giant boards on and off a week little toy of a jointer. Getting old sucks and Iím not even old. I just use the crap out of my body and always have.

  8. #8
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    As impatient as I might also be to get this unloaded and into the shop...I think I'd choose the Uncle's shop option because of its advantages to the overall restoration project. Oh, and yea...forklift.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #9
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    Yeah but that means it sits in the back of my van in the driveway till Tuesday night as I have no way to get the dam thing to his shop without asking him to give away his Sunday.

    I’m pretty sure the van will live but you know I have destroyed the suspension of a couple vehicles now pushing them to far. But you know they never cost $67k

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    As impatient as I might also be to get this unloaded and into the shop...I think I'd choose the Uncle's shop option because of its advantages to the overall restoration project. Oh, and yea...forklift.

  10. #10
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    Patrick, were all machines wired 220 or do you need a 600v transformer? Dave who would like a tenoning table for a T21.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Yeah but that means it sits in the back of my van in the driveway till Tuesday night as I have no way to get the dam thing to his shop without asking him to give away his Sunday.

    Iím pretty sure the van will live but you know I have destroyed the suspension of a couple vehicles now pushing them to far. But you know they never cost $67k

    put a jack under the trailer hitch and raise the back end up some, old farmers trick I learned way too many years ago.
    I want that aircraft deck jointer in my basement bad, just need the money to buy it and the new outside entrance to the basement dug and installed. Then the crane can drop it in the basement entry way from the street
    good luck
    Ron

  12. #12
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    220,

    The machine actually came from a auction in New Jersey. I think rent is cheap up where I got it for shop space.

    Whatís your comment to Dave.

    Are you speaking of yourself in the third person. I have been trying to buy a tenon table Martin from overseas from the various emails I get from online retailers or online conglomerate dealers or whoever they are. Nobody ever gets back to me. Iím totally considering a trip to Germany when my dog dies to get at the least the a machine with a tenon table.

    Iím not kidding either. You watch Iíll do it. But Iím never leaving my dog while I go on vacation. I have not been on one in eleven years.

    And at this point I am fully committed to a t23 tenon table. I have been in front of the gamete now of Martin shaper from these 50-70ís machines to a couple year old top of the line and I can day without doubt I would prefer a 70ís t73 tenon table to any other Martin I could have.

    In photo they kinda look wimpy but in person they are so substantial and quite massive in comparison to anything but a brand new cnc Martin. Then even those are just bigger in mass not heft. I guess they have the heft but itís concrete not metal and I prefer the metal.


    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    Patrick, were all machines wired 220 or do you need a 600v transformer? Dave who would like a tenoning table for a T21.

  13. #13
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    I actually had my first jointer/combo machine lifted over my house with a crane as I was to insecure at the time to think I could move it. I know better now but at the time it was probably a smart decision. That machine weighed 1800 lbs and was maybe 30x86. I’ll move my Martin jointer in 128x36” probably by myself something this next year.

    You live your learn but hopefully not the hard way.

    Great suggestion on the jack im gonna run out and do it like right now. Thank you, sometimes the most simple things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Selzer View Post
    put a jack under the trailer hitch and raise the back end up some, old farmers trick I learned way too many years ago.
    I want that aircraft deck jointer in my basement bad, just need the money to buy it and the new outside entrance to the basement dug and installed. Then the crane can drop it in the basement entry way from the street
    good luck
    Ron
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-16-2020 at 2:07 PM.

  14. #14
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    Yes, Patrick, bring home two tenoning tables as I would like one. Dave

  15. #15
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    Good luck with Germany, or Europe in general.

    I could write a lengthy post on why buying parts from a Euro manufacturer is almost impossible.

    It took over 2 months to come to a dead end with Martin on part availability, ok I could sort of get some parts, but didn't know exactly what they were or if they would fit.

    I have been waiting 4 weeks for another company to have a meeting to see how much they want for a part that is way obsolete and they didn't know they had.

    Buying parts in person in Europe is almost no better, the only better part is an actual person says you can't have it. Lol.

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