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Thread: 1982 Martin T-23

  1. #31
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    Dan,

    I was not aware of the product.

    I idea of fixing one with say fiberglass and resin from the inside did cross my kind then make a mold. What to make th mold out of I was unsure but figured I could figure it out. The hiccup was how the hell do I liquify plastic to pour the form.

    I think this would be the best approach as if I could color match with a product green through and through it would be a exact reproduction and for whatever reason that’s very important to me.

    It’s not so easy to find these machines and someday they will be gone for the most part. I know I’m not gonna change that by restoring and or having one or two of everyone of them. The reality is I have no wife no kids and someone is gonna pay somebody to drag my machines out of my house when I die and that person is gonna scrap them or sell them to some schmuck that will destroy them.

    But regardless it important to be to reserve them.

    I never I intended to get the old/vintage machinery bug. I actually was smitten by the electronic brand new everything machines when I first got into fine Woodworking. It was only through owning those machines that I fell completely out of love and into love with old machines.

    Now my love of these old machines is as strong as my love of Woodworking. Plus I get paid to work wood all day so I need a outlet outside of that. I always need a place to realize don’t crap right, like right right all the way right not like we gotta pay the bills right.

    So hopefully someone can lead me to water on reproducing these things authentically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Friedrichs View Post
    Not sure how good of suggestion this is, but if you can get at least one of the originals in decent shape (ie - held together with CA glue, if necessary), it may be possible for you to use it as a master to create a rubber mold and cast your own replacement using a material like Alumilite. This is surprisingly easy to do and not terribly expensive.

  2. #32
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    Nice acquisition! Enjoyed the extraneous photos as well. I always wondered about those huge 30-36 planers and the surface they put out. I would almost have to have a second planer, however. Seems wasteful to fire up 30hp of amps to plane an 8 board haha.

    This came up in person a couple weeks ago and you and Darcy triggered my memory. Is there a place like OWWM for martin catalogues and price lists? Someone was asking me what the retail price of an 80s saw was, and I could not find old prices or catalogues to answer the question. Curious, what did the 23 cost back in the day?

  3. #33
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    You know I’m not sure if there is, nobody has mentioned one to me.

    I’m falling pretty hard for these old Martins and would love to acquire a fully equipped vintage Martin shop.

    Just tonight I found a t51 and hope to hear back.

    As for cost Joe Calhoon seems to often have a good idea about these things.

    If I’m remembering correctly I think this t23 would had been like $9-10k in 1982.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Kane View Post
    Nice acquisition! Enjoyed the extraneous photos as well. I always wondered about those huge 30-36” planers and the surface they put out. I would almost have to have a second planer, however. Seems wasteful to fire up 30hp of amps to plane an 8” board haha.

    This came up in person a couple weeks ago and you and Darcy triggered my memory. Is there a place like OWWM for martin catalogues and price lists? Someone was asking me what the retail price of an 80s saw was, and I could not find old prices or catalogues to answer the question. Curious, what did the 23 cost back in the day?

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Dan,

    I was not aware of the product.

    I idea of fixing one with say fiberglass and resin from the inside did cross my kind then make a mold. What to make th mold out of I was unsure but figured I could figure it out. The hiccup was how the hell do I liquify plastic to pour the form.

    I think this would be the best approach as if I could color match with a product green through and through it would be a exact reproduction and for whatever reason that’s very important to me.
    They have a kit of dyes where you could mix the colors to get a match, if you were so inclined.

  5. #35
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    Brian Halcomb made a good suggestion. Have someone with a cnc scan it and reproduce it.

    Two issue for me with that but I’ll probably give into weakness.

    I hate hate hate cnc makes for anything automated this automated that. I’m maker I’m blue color worker by birth and by choice. Ethically I’m not on board with machines taking over basic jobs that’s not nosed young kids are to good for because their parents could afford them a education and a shot at a “so called” better life.

    Yes I have a chip as it’s personal. It Always has been even if someone willing to do my job for half the price. That little tid bit is mostly what motivated to become a fine woodworker as apposed to run of the mill.

    I respect hand made, you can see feel and tell the difference. Sure machine made has its allure of reflection in its own way. I’m man enough to admit it. But I prefer the marks and signs of handmade and or primitive making techniques prior to cnc and automated everything.

    I know the argument for advancements in technology, I’m fully aware and have a Brian enough to get your argument. I just don’t like it and will pretty much at all cost spend the rest of my life avoiding partaking.

    But yeah I’ll go ask, see what the options are and the cost. If for nothing g else than to humor myself when I punish my sore carpal tunnel ridden hands, arthritic elbows and ruined rotator cuffs.

  6. #36
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    Just remember that for those of us who do use CNC...it's just one tool and we still have to do all the finesse work on any parts a machine like that cuts. For me, it's the best of both worlds, but I respect that it's not for everyone. In this case, it may very well be a good way to reproduce a machine part that would be pretty difficult to do by hand if it's not available to buy new from the manufacturer. Brady Watson does some pretty amazing 3D scanning that supports that kind of thing. You may also get lucky and find a replacement part "out there" on a junker machine that's being parted out. Who knows?
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #37
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    And please Jim no judgment passed as I’m a avid believer in each to his own. I don’t like being judged, backed into corners or stereotyped. Like it really don’t like it be it directed toward me or anyone else. So my opinion is what is good for me and not what I expect everyone else to adhere to. And come on we are talking about Woodworking ethics relating to cnc vrs antiquated methods. I get I loose this argument.

    I’m fully aware of the tasks left behind for the maker after the cnc. I get the argument it does the mundane work allowing more time and focus on other more interesting work. I guess I just feel ripped off if you don’t have to take the bad with the good. I think anything worth having is worth ad requires a certain amount of suffering and sacrifice. I’m a natural born sufferer so much so I have come to enjoy it even when the cost high and it just plane old stinks. Life has been a uphill battle for me since birth, it’s built into my dna and built into my ethic.

    But again cnc away i sat. And yeah I’m gonna try and find someone that can do this and see how much suffering it might save me vrs money and moral integrity lol..

    Do you have contact info for mr Watson?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    Just remember that for those of us who do use CNC...it's just one tool and we still have to do all the finesse work on any parts a machine like that cuts. For me, it's the best of both worlds, but I respect that it's not for everyone. In this case, it may very well be a good way to reproduce a machine part that would be pretty difficult to do by hand if it's not available to buy new from the manufacturer. Brady Watson does some pretty amazing 3D scanning that supports that kind of thing. You may also get lucky and find a replacement part "out there" on a junker machine that's being parted out. Who knows?
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-18-2020 at 11:37 AM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Walsh View Post
    Do you have contact info for mr Watson?
    http://www.ibild.com/
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  9. #39
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    Thank you sir..

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post

  10. #40
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    I've had the pleasure of working with Brady's output. He's a really good person to at lease consult with about the possibilities for that particular part you need to figure out a solution for.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  11. #41
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    I took the day off to renew my license. So I have some free time on my hands. Just got off the phone with Bradly. Very nice guy and willing to help if even only to advise.

    Thanks for intervening Jim, I’m actually on my way to Jersey this weekend to visit a mutual friend to finish work on a part for the t75. So who knows how this works out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker View Post
    I've had the pleasure of working with Brady's output. He's a really good person to at lease consult with about the possibilities for that particular part you need to figure out a solution for.

  12. #42
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    Nice score Patrick! I'm taking that will replace my newly acquired Fz700 I will have to admit that I could see myself easily falling for these old iron machines so opening your threads I have to tell myself to be happy with what you have, just encourage the young man and move on. I have a nasty bad habit for restoring old motorcycles, nothing better than bringing a fresh look to a piece of iron that well deserves it.
    A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops. My desk is a work station.

  13. #43
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    Well Jeff none of us can have it all and or do everything. I’m early 40’s no kids single with a dog I treat like a person and I find it hard to find the time and resources just for the Woodworking amp machine lust thing. Honestly there isn’t enough time when I factor in I do all my own home maintenance upgrades and repairs.

    So I say as you have decided be happy with what you have or none of what you have will be fully realized. I also like other things. Namely I’d love a E30 BMW M3 and could easily get into vintage motorcycles but I know there is no point as I can’t afford everything and I surely don’t have the time.

    Even this machine without paint will cost me a good portion of 10K when done. Per Jim’s suggestion I have a,ready asked to someone that makes a file of the part. I pay him, then I find and pay someone with the appropriate cnc machine. Then the aigner fences, then the best powerfeeder currently in production and stand. Then a router spindle just cuz even though I’ll never use it. Some 8 gauge wire a outlet end some aigner extension table brackets and I’m freaking broke again, but it’s worth it cuz Hines,ty I’m happy with nothing less and loose my mind if I have to sit still for like 10 seconds.

    And yes I agree some things just deserve to be recognized for what they were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Monson View Post
    Nice score Patrick! I'm taking that will replace my newly acquired Fz700 I will have to admit that I could see myself easily falling for these old iron machines so opening your threads I have to tell myself to be happy with what you have, just encourage the young man and move on. I have a nasty bad habit for restoring old motorcycles, nothing better than bringing a fresh look to a piece of iron that well deserves it.

  14. #44
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    Just find a competent welder that has experience with aluminum, I think TIG welding, and be done with all this handwringing, and talk of plastic and fiberglass patching.

    Not rocket science.
    Not hard.
    And not expensive.

    Do it the right way.
    It's only a crack, and without seeing it, it is non-structural.

    Problem solved, next.....

  15. #45
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    But the part is plastic currently. If the missing pieces were there I would use a plastic epoxy and leave it be.

    I suggested having it duplicated in aluminum.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 02-18-2020 at 1:04 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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