Some new-to-me tools I picked up the other day

[Jonathan M Peters]

Jonathan, your images make the chuck look like it is off at an angle.

The Samson chuck in my bevy of braces is on a 8014 with SAMSON in large letters following the 8014 on the crank arm. It is a bit faint and difficult to see even with it being fairly clean.

Attachment 425869

It is the one on the upper left.

This is an image of the Millers Falls Lion chuck:

Attachment 425870

This is quite different than the same view of a Samson chuck.

Now that I know it's a Craftsman, I did some internet snooping and this is the best info I've found. Seems it is likely made by Miller Falls and has a "Holdall" model chuck. It's apparently similar to a Millers Falls No. 772 Brace, which I've seen described as having the "Lion" chuck, so perhaps "Holdall" and "Lion" are the same thing?

[steven c newman]

braces.JPG
Left to right...
14" Stanley
12" Samson PEXTO
10" Millers Falls Barber chuck
8" Millers Falls Holdall
6" KeenKutter ( M-F 1095?)

The Stanley has their version of the Holdall chuck....seems everyone was making copies of everyone else's designs...including Goodell Pratt & Co.

[Jim Koepke]

Now that I know it's a Craftsman, I did some internet snooping and this is the best info I've found. Seems it is likely made by Miller Falls and has a "Holdall" model chuck. It's apparently similar to a Millers Falls No. 772 Brace, which I've seen described as having the "Lion" chuck, so perhaps "Holdall" and "Lion" are the same thing?

Here is the page of Millers Falls braces with the #772 > http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm

jtk

[Jonathan M Peters]

braces.JPG
Left to right...
14" Stanley
12" Samson PEXTO
10" Millers Falls Barber chuck
8" Millers Falls Holdall
6" KeenKutter ( M-F 1095?)

The Stanley has their version of the Holdall chuck....seems everyone was making copies of everyone else's designs...including Goodell Pratt & Co.

Nice stash!

Here is the page of Millers Falls braces with the #772 > http://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm

jtk

Thanks for the link. I ended up navigating to that page after learning the Craftsman I have bears similarities to the MF 772. That site is a gold mine.

[John Makar]

The plane looks like a Stanley Bailey. There was a period when they produced un-marked frogs and bodies for export as parts to Canada to get around customs duties. The got assembled there and headed off to the UK. Yours is a dead-ringer for a #4 Type 5 I have, except mine picked up a Stanley Sweatheart made in Canada iron and chipbreaker and came down from Canada with my grandfather.

[J. Greg Jones]

This is an image of the Millers Falls Lion chuck:

Attachment 425870

This is quite different than the same view of a Samson chuck.

Visually, both the Lion Chuck and the Sampson Chuck changed over the years. This image shows a Sampson (L) and a Lion (R) and they are nearly identical. The third chuck in the picture, still on the brace, is a Sampson chuck that looks somewhat similar to your picture of a Lion chuck.

[Jonathan M Peters]

The plane looks like a Stanley Bailey. There was a period when they produced un-marked frogs and bodies for export as parts to Canada to get around customs duties. The got assembled there and headed off to the UK. Yours is a dead-ringer for a #4 Type 5 I have, except mine picked up a Stanley Sweatheart made in Canada iron and chipbreaker and came down from Canada with my grandfather.

Are you referring to the Diamond Edge branded #4 plane with the hard rubber / gutta percha tote? Or the completely unbranded #5 1/2 plane with Diamond Edge blade? I assume the latter since you mention Stanley produced un-marked frogs & bodies for export.

[Jonathan M Peters]

Visually, both the Lion Chuck and the Sampson Chuck changed over the years. This image shows a Sampson (L) and a Lion (R) and they are nearly identical. The third chuck in the picture, still on the brace, is a Sampson chuck that looks somewhat similar to your picture of a Lion chuck.

In the photo of the three chucks you shared, mine most closely resembles the Sampson (top left) since the arrow notches on mine are centered in the sides of the square, whereas on the Lion (top right) the arrow notches are offset. When I took the chuck apart, it looks like it has the Leland's Universal Jaws.

[J. Greg Jones]

Now that I know it's a Craftsman, I did some internet snooping and this is the best info I've found. Seems it is likely made by Miller Falls and has a "Holdall" model chuck. It's apparently similar to a Millers Falls No. 772 Brace, which I've seen described as having the "Lion" chuck, so perhaps "Holdall" and "Lion" are the same thing?

Not exactly the same thing. I’m puzzled by the info in the link you shared, as that site has a lot of great info, but I think George is mistaken on this one. Later versions of the Holdall and the Lion chucks took the Leland jaws, but the chucks are different. The main difference is the Lion chuck has a ball bearing head, to smooth the movement when inserting/removing a bit. The Holdall does not have ball bearings, and frankly I’ve never thought that the bearings made much, if any, difference in smoothness. Here is a MF-772 with Lion chuck (top) and a MF-732 with the Holdall chuck (bottom). This is a great site for info on Millers Falls drills and braces.

https://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm

[J. Greg Jones]

In the photo of the three chucks you shared, mine most closely resembles the Sampson (top left) since the arrow notches on mine are centered in the sides of the square, whereas on the Lion (top right) the arrow notches are offset. When I took the chuck apart, it looks like it has the Leland's Universal Jaws.

In my opinion, there is no question that your brace was made by Millers Falls. Ignoring chuck appearance, the most important factor is the shape of the wrist retainers mentioned in my first post. PEXTO did not make squared retainers. Also, there are sites that list all the various manufacturers and their codes that made tools for Craftsman over the years (Millers Falls=BB). I’ve never seen PEXTO/Peck, Stow, & Wilcox on any of those lists

[Jonathan M Peters]

Not exactly the same thing. I’m puzzled by the info in the link you shared, as that site has a lot of great info, but I think George is mistaken on this one. Later versions of the Holdall and the Lion chucks took the Leland jaws, but the chucks are different. The main difference is the Lion chuck has a ball bearing head, to smooth the movement when inserting/removing a bit. The Holdall does not have ball bearings, and frankly I’ve never thought that the bearings made much, if any, difference in smoothness. Here is a MF-772 with Lion chuck (top) and a MF-732 with the Holdall chuck (bottom). This is a great site for info on Millers Falls drills and braces.

https://oldtoolheaven.com/brace/brace5.htm

In my opinion, there is no question that your brace was made by Millers Falls. Ignoring chuck appearance, the most important factor is the shape of the wrist retainers mentioned in my first post. PEXTO did not make squared retainers. Also, there are sites that list all the various manufacturers and their codes that made tools for Craftsman over the years (Millers Falls=BB). I’ve never seen PEXTO/Peck, Stow, & Wilcox on any of those lists

Thank you. This is very helpful I see the difference between the Holdall and Lion chucks. I agree with you that mine is made by Millers Falls and has the Lion chuck with ball bearings. As I continue to clean her up, I'll see if I can find a BB code next to the Made in USA stamping.

[J. Greg Jones]

Glad to help! For the most part, I don’t ‘collect’ tools or even have duplicates of tools, but braces and, to a lesser extent, eggbeater drills are a weakness for me. I have 40 braces, and here are two of my favorite Millers Falls, both Model 12. The top one was made between 1871-1878 and it is nearly as perfect as the day it was made. The other was made between 1911-1914, so it’s ‘only’ a little over 100 years old!

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Whether marked Millers Falls or Craftsman, it is a good brace. Those ball bearing chucks will hold anything you put in them. I have one of the Bell Systems braces, and although it is a nice brace, I like the ball bearing chuck on the Millers Falls better. I assume the Samson chucks are just as good, but have never used one personally.

[John Makar]

The undocumented 5 1/2. I agree it could also be a Union, when you see pictures of old Unions they are identical. I am also relying on my memory from my father of his father-in-law as to origins. My iron is clearly stamped Stanley Sweatheart Canada, and yours and mine are pretty certainly type 5 from around the mid 1880s, the Frog and the Lever in particular. For mine all the other attributes of a US type 5 are missing like patent dates, etc. Since my father/grandfather freely combined anything with anything based on the needs of the moment hybridization may have happened, tho unlikely on the Frog. Mine spent a month in a de-rust bath and the iron was totally Tormek-ized years ago, and now works fine.

[Jonathan M Peters]

The undocumented 5 1/2. I agree it could also be a Union, when you see pictures of old Unions they are identical. I am also relying on my memory from my father of his father-in-law as to origins. My iron is clearly stamped Stanley Sweatheart Canada, and yours and mine are pretty certainly type 5 from around the mid 1880s, the Frog and the Lever in particular. For mine all the other attributes of a US type 5 are missing like patent dates, etc. Since my father/grandfather freely combined anything with anything based on the needs of the moment hybridization may have happened, tho unlikely on the Frog. Mine spent a month in a de-rust bath and the iron was totally Tormek-ized years ago, and now works fine.

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing. I was just looking back at the photos I took of the 5 1/2 earlier in this thread and noticed there's a crack in the iron! Not sure how I missed that. No biggie, but I'll need to get a new iron for it. I will have to be sure I get a 2 1/4" blade for the early style 5 1/2 planes, rather than the 2 3/8" that was used on the later 5 1/2 planes.