Terms of Service - Notice

[Aaron Koehl]

All,

I have noticed a couple of posts recently where community members have disagreed with the content of another member's post, or felt that a post was in violation of the Terms of Service.

Rather than posting to correct the user, we urge that you use the Report Post to Moderator button at the top of any offending post.. then you can submit a reason for the moderators to take action. Sometimes members disagreeing with or correcting others aren't the most tactful..

Just a reminder, flaming and personal attacks are a quick way to get an the entire thread yanked. While this is infrequent, this is not a Good Thing. (tm) I really dislike moving entire threads for four or five posts being out of line, but when they start to contain members flaming other members, it will be my action of choice.

Let's continue to keep the SawmillCreek community clean!

And yes, I know it's difficult to take me seriously when I have photo-edited reindeer antlers on my avatar. But hey, Merry Christmas anyway!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Aaron.....Thanks for all you do for SMC......I can take you seriously with those antlers...but don't put a red nose on ......I don't want to have to call you Rudolph!

[Jim Dunn]

Thanks Aaron. Merry Christmas.

Jim

[Frank Chaffee]

And Merry Christmas to you Aaron, as well!

Thank you so very much for all of the awesome effort you have put into making Sawmill Creek the great place that it is.

Frank

[Randy Meijer]

.....Just a reminder, flaming and personal attacks are a quick way to get an the entire thread yanked.....

Hey Aaron: I've seen this happen on other boards as well and it has always puzzled me. Never quite understood why mods felt the need to delete an entire thread when there were a few flames. Seemed like it makes a lot more sense to just delete the offending post?? I've seen threads with a lot of good information in them totally deleted because of one or two posts that got out of hand. I assume that someone has the power to delete a specific offensive post?? What am I missing here?? Anyone care to comment on the logic behind deleting entire threads rether than trimming out the offending parts?? Not trying to start a debate here, just trying understand some of the philosophy of "moderating."

[Craig Zettle]

Is this why I can't find the Grizzly 8" parallelogram jointer thread? Or was it sent to another location? If it was deleted, why?

[Robert Mayer]

This place is pretty tame compared to woodnet...

[lou sansone]

This is the only forum that I will participate in and in large part because of the rules of civility and decorum. Thanks for making this a great place to share information
lou

[Keith Outten]

I would like to add an important point to this discussion. There are legal issues involved with public forums that can be very serious. I have received messages in the past that were directives to remove certain posts/threads or face a legal challenge. Additionally the Member who made innacurate or innapropriate statements was mentioned as a possible law suit candidate.

Be carefull what you post publicly, remember that we all have to abide by the law of the land and you are responsible for your actions. SMC will not suffer fiancially or be forced offline due to a legal issue. Any message that may be a problem legally will be removed immediately.

Our first obligation is to protect our Community.

[Craig Zettle]

I have pretty much stopped posting on Sawmill and WWA (completely) because of the bickering. I am just a middle of the road woodworker that really watches a buck and I really benefit from the info I get on product heads ups from members, as well as tips from guys who have been there-done that.
Randy M. brings up a good point about not deleting an entire post for a few flames. Just think, if you represented a company competing with the company getting a favorable post, just toss a few flames in and the whole post is gone.
I learned some info that I deem extremely valuable in my future jointer purchase, and I guess I was just lucky to memorize it before it disapeared.

Rant over, back to lurking, not contributing, and shaking my head.

Craig

[Tim Burke]

This is a great place to hang out, especially considering the raunchy nature of unmoderated forums. I know it takes a lot of work to moderate a forum and keep it on topic. My job related forum is the same way. I'm not a prude, but I like to be able to go to information sites without sorting through OT trash talk, politics, anger, etc. There's enough negative in the real world, and it's nice to avoid it in a hobby forum.

Keep up the good work! As a relative newcomer, it looks to me like the management efforts here encourage high quality posts and respectful members.

[Brian Austin]

Hey Aaron: I've seen this happen on other boards as well and it has always puzzled me. Never quite understood why mods felt the need to delete an entire thread when there were a few flames. Seemed like it makes a lot more sense to just delete the offending post?? I've seen threads with a lot of good information in them totally deleted because of one or two posts that got out of hand. I assume that someone has the power to delete a specific offensive post?? What am I missing here?? Anyone care to comment on the logic behind deleting entire threads rether than trimming out the offending parts?? Not trying to start a debate here, just trying understand some of the philosophy of "moderating."

Not Aaron nor do I have a moderator/admin role here but I'm an administrator at another site with the same software and very similar terms of service.

Deleting the entire thread (in my case) is easier for a few reasons:

1. If the post that stirred up the debate is left in place, someone will just reply again.
2. If some people's posts are removed but others aren't, the moderators are accused of favoritism.
3. If the entire thread is deleted, there is no chance of recurrence and little chance of reposting the entire thread.

Moderating isn't easy. There is ALWAYS a line where a post could be interpreted either way. It's often easier to err on the side of caution instead of testing the waters.

And, as proven by the Avweb lawsuit, a moderation staff that stays on top of things and abides by its own terms of service will avoid lawsuits and eventual closing. Google it if you're curious.

[tod evans]

i have just read the av suit mentioned above....this has opened my eyes! i would like to ask some of our legal brethren to comment on how we as woodworkers may phrase questions to oneanother. and how as tool consumers, can we exchange our unbiased opinions so as to keep this forum the upstanding,civil resourse it is for all of us. thanks, tod

[Dan Racette]

Tough job gentleman. Glad to see that the good of the community is on your minds, you guys have kept this a great place. 90% or higher of the membership here is quality folk!

Keep up the great work!

Dan Racette

[Aaron Koehl]

Brian,

Thanks for this post, you precisely summed up the four points I was going to make in my response:

1. If the controversial post is left in place (and it's usually not just one); if it's heated enough, someone else will just reply again.

2. Posts and debates build upon one another, and while identifying the root is not too difficult, all the posts that reference it are difficult to weed out. Weeding out just a few posts results in favoritism-

3. We don't outright delete threads, but we do move them to a non-public area. It makes it manageable.

4. Testing the waters, so to speak, is not the way to handle disputes. This method is employed on nearly all moderated forums I've visited over the past 10 years.

Also note, this thread topic is NOT about one specific thread-

Not Aaron nor do I have a moderator/admin role here but I'm an administrator at another site with the same software and very similar terms of service.

Deleting the entire thread (in my case) is easier for a few reasons:

1. If the post that stirred up the debate is left in place, someone will just reply again.
2. If some people's posts are removed but others aren't, the moderators are accused of favoritism.
3. If the entire thread is deleted, there is no chance of recurrence and little chance of reposting the entire thread.

Moderating isn't easy. There is ALWAYS a line where a post could be interpreted either way. It's often easier to err on the side of caution instead of testing the waters.

And, as proven by the Avweb lawsuit, a moderation staff that stays on top of things and abides by its own terms of service will avoid lawsuits and eventual closing. Google it if you're curious.